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Engineer - July Update


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#41 Sh0kDTC

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 07:08 PM

Hey,

 

 

Ninja's should not have heavy armor.  Unless we are samurais, in which case, you messed up with the lack of sword.

That's what's missing with us engineers !! A DREADFULL SAMURAI SWORD !! And the melee stance, where Electrocute becomes "Electrosword", and bolt caster "Skuriken Slap". Would be fun meh :P

And I just got up with some crazy ideas for some of our spells, I know it's crazy, but I don't care, because it involves a Jetpack.

Energy Auger : The telegraph and mechanics of the spells would be the same, but instead of shooting it straight forward us, we'd spawn a jetpack, overload it, and choose in which direction it'd shoot US, leaving the well known flame trail from the spell behind us, as we're jetpacking.

Tresher : I honestly can't find any use for this spell, as I find the cost of it versus the benefits not worth at all using this spell. What if it'd spawn a land mine, exploding for the same damages once something walks on it? Honestly, Stalkers have mines, (By the way i'm sure these mines are crafted by some engineers) why haven't we any? :P

 

Mortar Strike : I have no constructive idea, honestly I'd like to use it in my everyday DPS cycle, because mortar and explosions are fun, but can't get a reliable dps with it :( (Maybe because I'm too dumb, but I'd never admit it. Or did I?)

So : Make it channeling, like some Marauders in Skullcrano, and with tiering, everytime we hit our target, some of the volatily cost is refunded. But I'd be another electrocute spell like and not bring some variety in our gameplay.

Or : Make us put a mortar in our mouth, SHOUT OUT all our rage, and JUMP on the enemy with our jetpack while screaming "MORTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR" and then EXPLODE !!!

 

To make it quick : Jetpacks, Ninja Sword, and Mines.

 

Hope it'll give some ideas, or at least make someone laugh. I laughed while writting it, so I guess I achieved my goal.

 

Gannbate, I'm sure Engineer will become the top swag class everyone wants to play soon ;D


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#42 wolfwood82

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 07:46 PM

 

 

 

 

Well if you think about heavy machine gun and supression fire you are right ,)

But for the most part i c the engi weapons more like a granate luncher then a heavy machine gun xD

 

But that doesnt rly matter. Since we have Electrocute you can c them as a Tesla weapon and thats some kind of cool too  ;)

 

A suggestions for a diffrent system then "in the zone"?

let me think for a moment...

 

How about something like this: If you are over 30 or lets say 40 volatility your global cooldown is decreased by 0,25 seconds OR your Telegraphes get 10% larger since your "energie" is loadet up.

 

For each point in volatility above 40 you deal additional X dmg over the next 2 or 3 Seconds OR for every point over 40 volatility your next skill that uses Volatlity will deal 0,5% of its dmg over the next 3 seconds. (So with 80 Volatility this woud be 20% extra dmg over the next 3 seconds.)

 

If your Volatility is over 80 you will hit yourself for X dmg since your gear is overcharging OR your movementspeed is inreased.

If you hit 100 Volatility your gear will make an emergency cooldown and explode, draining 50 volatility and deals X dmg in your surrounding.

 

 

Dont c me wrong. That is just an idea. The "in the Zone" mechanic is fine if you think about Bold caster and Electrocute but sucks balls in therm of every other volatility user since they use up to much.

You can go and change our  Volatility users to be more usefull for the "in the zone" mechanic too.

 

I dont care as along as most (or better all) of our Skills and AMPs are usefull in the end.

 

Isn't your idea a more DPS centric version of the "in the zone" mechanic with horrible consequences for effing up and accumulating too much vol or... just hitting exosuit....? Really you just re-wrote the old mechanic to include some amp powers but for free.

 

Honestly the only reason why there is a zone in the first place, is to take advantage of certain amps and tier levels of skills. It doesn't do anything for us by itself. In other words, you don't have to use that particular play style if you don't want to. Wait for the DEVs to fix up Mortar Strike and they will probably give us a bit more burst damage options.



#43 m4a2t0t

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 01:12 PM

Sad Sad devs. 2 months of playing a buggy class and this is what we get? Hey, we got a fix for pet aggro but if it doesnt work...we will wait another 2 months before looking at it.



#44 NickTheGreek

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 02:06 PM

Question: Are you focusing more on keeping Mortar strike close to how it is now, while giving it a better niche for damage or utility? Or do you think it needs a complete rework in order to be a viable skill when put up against Electrocute and Bolt Caster, which are usually better all-round abilities?

 

What sort of ideas do you have for it? Personally I would like to see it reworked into a secondary damage skill or Volatility dump, perhaps a long cooldown burst damage strike that costs a large amount of Volatility, or costs all your Volatility but deals more damage based on how much it consumes? Engineers can sometimes have the problem of having TOO much Volatility and it would be a nice way to offset it.

 

How do you plan on making it shine when Electrocute is so similar?

 

Are you focusing on PvE or PvP for these changes? Mortar Strike needs help in both, so please don't neglect one or the other.

 

 

As this sir says, the way that mortar strike works it's really bad cause i can't even count how many times the skill went through target or over it! A complete rework would be more likely wanted! Of course we need it to be spender and BIG burst one ! Many other classes that are supposed to have sustained damage are able to do even more burst than the " bursty" classes .... And they can choose to be sustain or burst but we dont have a choise.. Also bolt caster is just too unforgiving if you can't aim perfectly, im using it only cause if it will hit it will do something better than electrocute ( which i don't like to use cause it's sustained dps skill ).

 

I'm exactly in same spot as Noraim! Really i'm not gona go and reroll every month the new fotm! Leveling second time was really a pain in the *cupcake*..

 

Target Aquisition, any serious player using it must be drunk....  And many more AMPs.. The dasher isn't bad at all and as other said if you dont want to use it you dont have to!  There are many way to get volatility up!

 

"" Basically, the trade off in DPS and functionality that support skills trade for Threat Generation weakens PvP Support Engineers """ Really much agreed!!

@Sh0kDTC  laughed hard!

Crossing fingers for the best! I suppose good luck to everyone that plays engi!



#45 wolfwood82

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 04:55 PM

Get ready for the nerf bat, folks.

 

Lower tank threat and Lower DPS - Here we come!

I read the threat part as them upping tank damage and reducing threat production at the same time, which will likely result in almost exactly the same level of threat generation. The difference will be that more of the threat being generated, will be generated by actual damage rather then illusionary threat.

 

What it means is that tanks (probably all of them) will be able to contribute more DPS to mobs, without generating any  more/less threat then what they do already. In order to balance this out with the DPS, DPS will probably see a small reduction so that groups aren't tearing mobs apart because the tank has teeth too.

 

In the end, what it means is that DPS will be easier to out threat (doing less damage), tank dps will be more then tickles while the threat is reduced so that their threat output is relatively the same, and group dps output will stay the same over all.

 

TL;DR: DPS is shifting so that group DPS will be relatively the same, but tanks will be able to supply more DPS without losing their threat, and actual DPS will be reduced a bit, making out threatening them a bit easier.



#46 ShankzuLa

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:44 AM

The comments on here are priceless. Engi's absolutely slay every class in dps, have ranged, are by far the best tanks and can wear plate, and all people can do is scream "ERMAHGAWD warriors so op."

Hilarious, can't wait for the balances.

#47 zombaric

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 10:05 AM

I am not sure if they are serious with this update. I feel like its a joke. I really really want to love my engineer but the mechanics of it are meh. Too slow and clunky with no real reward. I do not feel like a high tech death dealing technophile, I feel like an asshat who stole a mech suit and some crappy service bots and went on a mediocre killing spree. Only to be stopped by a lame-oh with a sword. . . .

 

Seriously though, I really want to have FUN with my engineer but they are making it harder and harder. So I will play a troll stalker in the mean time.



#48 Trickshaw

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 07:44 PM

·         Performing audits on all spells in order to address issues that are not obvious but are negatively impacting gameplay.

 

 

I.E. here comes the nurf.


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#49 Waltfeld

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:09 AM

The comments on here are priceless. Engi's absolutely slay every class in dps, have ranged, are by far the best tanks and can wear plate, and all people can do is scream "ERMAHGAWD warriors so op."

Hilarious, can't wait for the balances.

At this point, damage is all we bring as a class. You sure as hell don't bring us for our utility options.  I don't think Warriors are OP, but I am envious that they get a bit more utility than we do. That lack of many solid utility abilities comes at a cost of doing high DPS however. 



#50 Psyknis

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 10:34 PM

·         Bot AI – In the short term we will continue to resolve bugs as they come up. For the long term we have developed a plan that should greatly improve pet behaviors.

 

So essentially, you're telling us beta feedback was useless because we are still seeing many of the same issues. Either remove them or make them "weapon attachments", this is really the only way this is going to work. 

 

·         Performing audits on all spells in order to address issues that are not obvious but are negatively impacting gameplay.

 

I really hope you mean animations because if we get nerfed again because we are the most stable sustained DPS, I might lose my mind. Please do your due diligence and explain this in a little more depth. 

 

·         Looking into Revisiting Mortar Strike and finding a place where it could really shine.

 

Step 1: remove mortar strike.

Step 2: re-design and entirely new move that doesn't utilize the "bio-shell" style damage. 

 

·         Cleaning up interaction of spells and AMPs that key off of the 30-70 Volatility zone.

 

Everything works if used in LAS 1, in LAS 2, 3 and even 4 I assume, it's all broken.

 

·         General Tank damage output and threat pacing.

o   We’re looking into ways to increase damage output of all tanks and normalizing threat generation.

 

Simple solution, tweak the Support Power modifiers on support abilities. Threat generation of 2:1 is perfect.

 

·         DPS balance across all classes is something we’re actively reviewing and have some major changes in the works.

 

Personally I don't see the imbalance you speak of (outside of PvP). I have been successfully out-DPS'd by every other class and I have out-DPS's every class. Each class brings something unique to the table... Except engineers, we are just laser beam robots whose bots manage to pull everything. 

 

Generally, the Engineers are in a much better spot now than they were at launch. However - we will be keeping up the work in order to squash bugs, improve bot behaviors, and introduce more quality of life improvements.

 

"Artillery Bot will now avoid telegraphs that don't move because he ain't a retard."


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#51 taintedzodiac

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:53 PM

"Artillery Bot will now avoid telegraphs that don't move because he ain't a retard."

 

Look at that face and tell me there's a high IQ behind it.  :lol:


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#52 Seztren

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:35 PM

So : Make it channeling, like some Marauders in Skullcrano, and with tiering, everytime we hit our target, some of the volatily cost is refunded.

 

I REALLY like the idea of turning Mortar Strike into the channeled barrage ability that most enemies wielding Rifles, like marauders and such, have. Where it launches a bunch of shells airbourne and the telegraphs land on you, making you have to sprint around to avoid getting demolished by all the damage. This sounds awesome for PvP and nice for long range PvE DPS too.

 

I suggest the following for a revamped Mortar Strike:

 

Instant multi-tap

25 Volatility/tick

No cooldown

Cannot be cast while moving

 

Deal (47% AP + Base Damage) damage to 5 marked foes after a short travel time. Skill marks foes with a thin telegraph and creates a GTAoE telegraph on top of them, which takes a short time (.3~ sec) to land. Can be outrun, barely, by using sprint or dodging. Casting roots you to the ground, and tapping launches shells at the first target in your "laser sight" telegraph. GTAoE is smaller than current Mortar Strike, about the same size as the common one you see Marauders using. Multi taps have a very low GCD and can all be spammed out quickly. Your cast stops if you move or you run out of Volatility.

 

T4 Bonus: Shells give you a buff that increase damage of further shells by 5% for 2 seconds, stacks 3 times.

T8 Bonus: Shells leave an area of Napalm on the ground that persists for 2 seconds, dealing (10% AP) damage per second. Does not stack with multiple shells.

 

 

This way it retains its own uniqueness compared to Electrocute by functioning very differently, still has its strong AoE damage potential, and also gains some utility as area denial and long ranged DPS. Does a lot of damage and is easy to land but can be dodged by players that are paying attention. Napalm doesn't stack so in PvE you're not stacking THAT much damage. Would be slightly behind Bolt Caster in terms of raw single target DPS, but have more Burst potential due to multi tap function.

 

This would stand out a ton and become an awesome fun skill for Engineers. Please make this happen.


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#53 Fatherbull

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:37 AM

I REALLY like the idea of turning Mortar Strike into the channeled barrage ability that most enemies wielding Rifles, like marauders and such, have. Where it launches a bunch of shells airbourne and the telegraphs land on you, making you have to sprint around to avoid getting demolished by all the damage. This sounds awesome for PvP and nice for long range PvE DPS too.

 

I suggest the following for a revamped Mortar Strike:

 

This way it retains its own uniqueness compared to Electrocute by functioning very differently, still has its strong AoE damage potential, and also gains some utility as area denial and long ranged DPS. Does a lot of damage and is easy to land but can be dodged by players that are paying attention. Napalm doesn't stack so in PvE you're not stacking THAT much damage. Would be slightly behind Bolt Caster in terms of raw single target DPS, but have more Burst potential due to multi tap function.

 

This would stand out a ton and become an awesome fun skill for Engineers. Please make this happen.

 

so you want to make the only skill that maybe would give a boost to engineer pvp (no self snare instant cast AOE dmg ) into a Skill thats even more "Bull" ? so now instead of snaring myself i will root myself? rly ?



#54 Sh0kDTC

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 05:06 AM

so you want to make the only skill that maybe would give a boost to engineer pvp (no self snare instant cast AOE dmg ) into a Skill thats even more "Bull" ? so now instead of snaring myself i will root myself? rly ?

Yeah, really because it would burst anything that's snared, rooted, stunned way more than the actual mortar strike.

 

And seriously, with the PvP latency, are you actually hitting anyone that's not snared, rooted, stunned or running forward in a line? I don't think so.

 

PLUS, it says "Mortar Strike", did you ever saw someone in a movie move while mortaring? It's basically root, aim, fire, kill. BOOM.


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#55 metalmuskox

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:16 AM

REVISIT Mortar Strike?  Mortar Strike doesn't need to be revisited, it needs to be FIXED!  It's not just kinda broken, like it doesn't do exactly what it's supposed to or occasionally bugs out - it has a failure rate of something approaching 90%.

 

Lol, really guys, isn't it kind of insane to have an ability 2 months after launch that flat out does not work past tier 3?  Meh.  Fix it already.



#56 metalmuskox

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:20 AM

An engineer using mortar strike should function like a Space Marine Devastator using a plasma cannon.  =D

 

Not supposed to be fast or agile, nor fight in the front line without support, but with range and a solid front line can blow some motha funkers up.



#57 Seztren

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 11:51 AM

so you want to make the only skill that maybe would give a boost to engineer pvp (no self snare instant cast AOE dmg ) into a Skill thats even more "Bull" ? so now instead of snaring myself i will root myself? rly ?

 

The only people that can't handle the snare on electrocute are people that are just plain bad at Engineer.

 

Learn how to position yourself and not overextend, learn when you should be putting out DPS with your main damage ability or kiting and hitting with other abilities. It's action combat 101. Snare isn't making Engineer's bad in PvP, it's making bad players bad in PvP.

 

If you want an ability that does tons of damage you need some form of drawback or else Engineers would just be running around spamming long ranged high damage AoE and kiting with T8 UW. You can do this with Bolt Caster but its balanced by being single target and hard to hit with. You can do it with Mortar Strike (when it gets fixed that is) but its balanced by costing an arm and a leg in Volatility and doing lackluster single target damage. Electrocute's crazy damage and AoE is balanced by being channeled tick damage rather than burst and by snaring the caster so he can't HERP DERP LOLOLOLOLOLOL RUNNING AROUND AT 100KPH SPAMMIN ELECTROCUTE LOL.

 

DPS needs to be situational or else it's just easymode faceroll spam.

 

 

Mortar Strike should be revised, changed to be only castable while stationary, cost a manageable amount of Volatilty, take more skill to aim, and deal tons of quick, burst damage with multi tap. Not all at once, but in quick succession if hits land, somewhat like Rampage.


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#58 Fatherbull

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 01:17 AM

The only people that can't handle the snare on electrocute are people that are just plain bad at Engineer.

 

Learn how to position yourself and not overextend, learn when you should be putting out DPS with your main damage ability or kiting and hitting with other abilities. It's action combat 101. Snare isn't making Engineer's bad in PvP, it's making bad players bad in PvP.

 

If you want an ability that does tons of damage you need some form of drawback or else Engineers would just be running around spamming long ranged high damage AoE and kiting with T8 UW. You can do this with Bolt Caster but its balanced by being single target and hard to hit with. You can do it with Mortar Strike (when it gets fixed that is) but its balanced by costing an arm and a leg in Volatility and doing lackluster single target damage. Electrocute's crazy damage and AoE is balanced by being channeled tick damage rather than burst and by snaring the caster so he can't HERP DERP LOLOLOLOLOLOL RUNNING AROUND AT 100KPH SPAMMIN ELECTROCUTE LOL.

 

DPS needs to be situational or else it's just easymode faceroll spam.

 

 

Mortar Strike should be revised, changed to be only castable while stationary, cost a manageable amount of Volatilty, take more skill to aim, and deal tons of quick, burst damage with multi tap. Not all at once, but in quick succession if hits land, somewhat like Rampage.

 

 Quote : "Mortar Strike should be revised, changed to be only castable while stationary, cost a manageable amount of Volatilty, take more skill to aim, and deal tons of quick, burst damage with multi tap. Not all at once, but in quick succession if hits land, somewhat like Rampage."

 

Nope. it doesnt. it should be revised and fixed yes... but sure as hell no SELFROOT.  Standing still while casting worked so extremely well for the Esper too... oh wait they get that changed! (even for PvE it was a problem.....)

 

we will see if you still think the selfsnare is needed on electrocute if they adjusted and balanced the dps of the classes....  if every other class can do comparable dmg without playing snail while doing it ( that you can forget about chasing someone with the snare even if it would do double the dmg as it is doing now is a complete different matter but following your argument anyone who thinks different than you is just simply a bad player who is to stupid to pvp so you wont care anyway).

 

Regarding pvp as it is now we seriously lack Movement ablities and if you dont play with  Boltcaster - Spec mobility overall. Yes we can do well in Arenas at the moment (but warriors are better there in every way anyway) but in Battlegrounds we are rarely a priority target for a reason. That said i think Support Engi is fine but the Assault one has problems...

 

This is all i will write about this and i just hope the Dev's will take another direction with the skill than your IN MY OPINION pretty crappy idea.



#59 Seztren

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

Ranged DPS is difficult to balance in a game like this. Ranged classes always have an advantage in MMOs, and often moreso in Action MMOs. While you're right in stating Engineer damage is currently a little bit lackluster, it's hardly so bad that they're useless.

 

If the drawbacks from Engi abilities are removed, expect damage to be nerfed EVEN LOWER than it already is now. Nobody wants that.

 

If you want Mortar Strike to deal more damage, like say, enough damage to compete with other classes in large-scale PvP like BGs where Mortar Strike is designed to be used (and where like you said yourself, Engineer is lacking in usefulness) it needs a drawback, or else it's just a superior ability in every way to other DPS like Rampage or Cascade. A smart Engineer knows how to stay behind lines and kite invading melee classes to get off shots, even if they're rooted for a second or two when firing, assuming the range is sufficient and the time it takes to get off all your shells isn't too long.

 

I'm suggesting an INTERESTING playstyle for Engineer. I don't want yet another straightforward, easymode "point and click" ability like Spellslingers have. If you want an MMO to take skill you can't have all your abilities in the game have huge telegraphs, tons of damage, huge AoE and no movement penalty, Lul. It's laughable.


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#60 Wrathblood

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:56 PM

I'm curious.  From a PvE standpoint, people keep saying that Engy's need to provide a lot of dps because they don't provide any utility.  What do you think, say, Espers and Medics bring to the table that Engy's don't that justifies the dps gap?