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High armor, High damage, High range


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#1 RlyAfka

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:02 AM

Is it going to take 20 man raids with 10 engineers to fix the fact that light armor is highly outclassed and outgamaged by more survivable medium and heavy armor classes?

 

Light gets 1shot or takes huge damage from almost everything yet both SS and Esper's are bottom rung dps next to medic?


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#2 trullsrohk

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:05 AM

but but but you need espers for that deflect debuff!

 

 

 

 

Oh wait dont engis do more dmg when deflected?


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#3 Juggers

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:13 AM

More of this is skill than class, it really is, but people don't like to admit it, no one wants to think the problem is themselves and blame it on something easy (I'm talking about DPS here) it's fine it's a new game, learning takes time.

 

A well played Esper, Medic or SS will not be a hindrance, or unwanted or anywhere close to bottom dps.

 

Espers need mobility improvements in some areas, Medics need a slight single target buff, AoE is great, Spellslingers honestly feel perfectly fine to me, it's nowhere near Warrior level of monkey smash, but it's not bad at all.

 

All need a few bug fixes and QoL improvements that will help in that regard as well.

 

Warriors are being brought down, and I imagine Engineer will end up with a few tweaks sooner than later.

 

The main problem with Warriors are they are incredibly easy to play, they aren't easy to play, hard to master, they are just easy.

 

Personally I enjoy hard to master classes myself.


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#4 RlyAfka

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

More of this is skill than class, it really is, but people don't like to admit it, no one wants to think the problem is themselves and blame it on something easy (I'm talking about DPS here) it's fine it's a new game, learning takes time.

 

A well played Esper, Medic or SS will not be a hindrance, or unwanted or anywhere close to bottom dps.

 

Espers need mobility improvements in some areas, Medics need a slight single target buff, AoE is great, Spellslingers honestly feel perfectly fine to me, it's nowhere near Warrior level of monkey smash, but it's not bad at all.

 

All need a few bug fixes and QoL improvements that will help in that regard as well.

 

Warriors are being brought down, and I imagine Engineer will end up with a few tweaks sooner than later.

 

The main problem with Warriors are they are incredibly easy to play, they aren't easy to play, hard to master, they are just easy.

 

Personally I enjoy hard to master classes myself.

 

^This guy didn't even read the OP.


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#5 ImpactHound

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

Heavy armor players are smug, spoiled, unskilled, ezmode ice-skating life-on-railz casuals that wouldn't know a hard encounter if it hit them head on because they're heavy armor and barely felt anything but a tickle *teehee!*

 

There I said it, what everybody else in the room is thinking to themselves


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#6 trullsrohk

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

Yeah I agree that most of the esper and medic guys come down to skill. Ive seen plenty of those 2 go from junk dmg to almost on par with my warrior depending on the player. Engi dps is just broke though. 

 

Now now before I get attacked yes I understand engis dont bring utility. But just imagine the crying you would hear if engis were given a kick and their dps was brought down 20% to be on par with the average


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#7 Tabemono

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:24 AM

Yea I'm ss the dps is really good, but the armor, well that has nothing to do with skill, you get hit, your done for, best thing you can do for survivability is the pvp heal gadget, and move around a lot.


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#8 Alphablue

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:26 AM

Heavy armor wearers basically have medium armor while in DPS stance.



#9 DeaHamlet

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:27 AM

My main is engi. My alts are esper and medic.

Engi is ezmode. Hands down. I felt like I'm cheating when I got on it. Still miss having a heal though.

I get it, devs, you don't care about hair styles and costumes... You shouldn't have tried to pretend, I might have liked you anyway. Now I feel like I'm at a dinner with some guy from the Internet and I find out he is really not a gamer, he just plays FIFA. I mean, he might be hot and all, but I can't help but feel like I was sold a bunch of baloney. 


#10 RlyAfka

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:28 AM

Yea I'm ss the dps is really good, but the armor, well that has nothing to do with skill, you get hit, your done for, best thing you can do for survivability is the pvp heal gadget, and move around a lot.

 

Now try that while being an immobile or self-rooted esper.

 

Heavy armor wearers basically have medium armor while in DPS stance.

 

The point is you don't get 1shot by almost every mechanic and nearly die to unavoidable damage.


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#11 LocatedSafe

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:44 AM

This is an issue that has been caused by the proliferation of damage meters and DPS race mechanics.  Everybody feels they need to be top of the damage meter regardless of what class they play.

 

The original idea of the armor classes is that you sacrifice raw DPS for more survivability. Given similar uptime, a heavy should always be out dps'd by a medium, who should always be out dps'd by a light.

 

The trade off is that a medium and heavy armored player should be able to make up for the decreased damage output with higher health, making a fight between them and a light player virtually even.

 

However, in PvE all anybody cares about is being top of the DPS chart. When you suddenly allow heavy and medium armor players to match/out dps light armor you completely remove the need to bring the light armor players (aside from some limited utility).

 

They need to fix the curve and reinforce the roles that each armor type plays. Players also need to be okay with redefining their definition of being a "good" player from toping charts to working together to clear content efficiently.  

 

That last part will never happen though.



#12 Tankanidis

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:33 AM

This is an issue that has been caused by the proliferation of damage meters and DPS race mechanics.  Everybody feels they need to be top of the damage meter regardless of what class they play.

 

Yes and the tragedy of that is, once a consensus is formed on x or y class and spec being 'bad' it leads to players being discriminated against.

 

 

We're already seeing it on Vet Dungeons with Medic DPS.



#13 pandatopia

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:37 AM

I don't understand, its a pretty obvious argument that "well played X will beat a cruddy or average Y".

 

The point on balance is "well played X could do much better being a well played Y".

 

I don't think if all dps went engie raid leaders would be sad (aside from the debuffs/buffs people need).

 

But if everyone went esper...well.

 

I think there would be problems.



#14 samhayn

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 09:44 AM

Yeah I agree that most of the esper and medic guys come down to skill. Ive seen plenty of those 2 go from junk dmg to almost on par with my warrior depending on the player. Engi dps is just broke though. 

 

Now now before I get attacked yes I understand engis dont bring utility. But just imagine the crying you would hear if engis were given a kick and their dps was brought down 20% to be on par with the average

this post can be summed up as "the best medic/espers i have ever grouped with ALMOST do as much damage as me" and this isnt a problem?


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#15 Tharianus

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

Is it going to take 20 man raids with 10 engineers to fix the fact that light armor is highly outclassed and outgamaged by more survivable medium and heavy armor classes?

 

Light gets 1shot or takes huge damage from almost everything yet both SS and Esper's are bottom rung dps next to medic?

 

seriously? after the elec telegraph nerf and the BC nerf??

play an engi in pvp please... enough said...

 

but ahh youre a PvE guy^^

sorry youre absolutely right because it is everything about PvE in this game  :rolleyes:


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#16 Ur0cyon

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:53 AM

I'll tell you what. If they boost your survivability and tweak my damage, then they need to boost the range on my abilities to match yours so that I have a chance to even get close to those pistol wielding pencil necks=)



#17 RlyAfka

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:53 AM

seriously? after the elec telegraph nerf and the BC nerf??

play an engi in pvp please... enough said...

 

but ahh youre a PvE guy^^

sorry youre absolutely right because it is everything about PvE in this game  :rolleyes:

 

I know a few 1800+ engineers

 

 

I don`t even.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wat.jpeg


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#18 Strixs

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 10:56 AM

This is an issue that has been caused by the proliferation of damage meters and DPS race mechanics.  Everybody feels they need to be top of the damage meter regardless of what class they play.

 

The original idea of the armor classes is that you sacrifice raw DPS for more survivability. Given similar uptime, a heavy should always be out dps'd by a medium, who should always be out dps'd by a light.

 

The trade off is that a medium and heavy armored player should be able to make up for the decreased damage output with higher health, making a fight between them and a light player virtually even.

 

However, in PvE all anybody cares about is being top of the DPS chart. When you suddenly allow heavy and medium armor players to match/out dps light armor you completely remove the need to bring the light armor players (aside from some limited utility).

 

They need to fix the curve and reinforce the roles that each armor type plays. Players also need to be okay with redefining their definition of being a "good" player from toping charts to working together to clear content efficiently.  

 

That last part will never happen though.

 

So true, ^^^ all of this.

 

Each character is designed to play differently if everyone wants top DPS then wildstar may as well just make the game black and white with all the same gear and spells and weapons... lame...

 

As well, It is not always a heal, tank, & dps Triangle... There are support classes to.

 

People think higher numbers are better and that is all you should look at when it is not.

Think Rift bard / EQ1 & 2 Bard....  they are more of a support character. Their goal is not to top healing charts or dmg charts. They are meant to increase other peoples Dmg / Healing. Or Offheal. Or Offtank.

 

a Medic can certainly be DPS with buffs  for the group and with a heal to assist a 5 man to victory. I have a 50 medic and am thankful that i had 2 diff heals on my bar when our Esper healer died from "Tellies" on the last boss in a dungeon. I saved the day and we didn't have to wipe and restart.

 

 

BTW i am Coining the word ""Tellies"" it started here^ and two L's are necessary.



#19 Tharianus

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:03 AM

I know a few 1800+ engineers

 

 

I don`t even.

 

 

 

im 1800 too -.- we have also an 1800 esper DD in our guild... that has nothing to say....

 

nerfing warriors, engis and let slingers untouched would be a complete fail...

 

they have to nerf trigger fingers... at least for the def CDs


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#20 Crystal Isis

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:05 AM

This is an issue that has been caused by the proliferation of damage meters and DPS race mechanics.  Everybody feels they need to be top of the damage meter regardless of what class they play.

 

The original idea of the armor classes is that you sacrifice raw DPS for more survivability. Given similar uptime, a heavy should always be out dps'd by a medium, who should always be out dps'd by a light.

 

The trade off is that a medium and heavy armored player should be able to make up for the decreased damage output with higher health, making a fight between them and a light player virtually even.

 

However, in PvE all anybody cares about is being top of the DPS chart. When you suddenly allow heavy and medium armor players to match/out dps light armor you completely remove the need to bring the light armor players (aside from some limited utility).

 

They need to fix the curve and reinforce the roles that each armor type plays. Players also need to be okay with redefining their definition of being a "good" player from toping charts to working together to clear content efficiently.  

 

That last part will never happen though.

 

Because this sounds just like something Krieger would say I love this post. Also it's very true. 


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