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Hopefully the Devs are listening to this one. Regarding Oceanic players being directed to the EU servers, and how this will hurt us more than help us.


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#1 Soulcoor

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 01:54 PM

So up until today I was under the impression, as is the case with other MMO's such as World of Warcraft, that us people playing in the oceanic region would be puchasing NA versions of the game. Obviously landing us on the NA servers, which whilst they are in Dallas and it is not ideal, gives me a latency of around 200-220 from Melbourneon a pretty crappy ADSL2 connection while testing the beta for months and months.

However, after reading the interview mmorpg.com did with Gaffney here: http://www.mmorpg.co...ure/8420/page/2
In part 2, the last part of the last question: There's more opportunities for that in the future, but apologies to Australian players, and bless those who've played at ridiculous, it's ridonkulus lag to the data center in Dallas they've been putting up with. It'll get a little better in Europe, but it's not as good as it needs to be.
This piqued my interest and I did some digging, I was able to find that both EB Games and JB Hi-Fi in Australia, the two major retailers I've found to be stocking the game, are both selling European versions of the game, with European keys which will only allow you to play on the servers I'm assuming are hosted in Frankfurt, Germany.

A simple latency test to any server in Frankfurt from Melbourne ends up with me getting 330-350 latency, around a 50% jump in latency. 200-220 latency I can play with, as I play and raid heroic modes quite comfortably with around the same latency on an EAST US WoW server, however other games I have attempted to play on 300+ latency it becomes unplayable, and I imagine with the telegraph system this would only be worsened, or become impossible. I think back to the days when WoW's traffic management was terribly un-optimized and us Australians experienced the usual latency of 280-350, it was a nightmare to play with then, and that was without needing to actually aim ourspells.

I'd really love to get a dev response as to if this is intended (although it clearly seems that it is), and why they think it is a good idea to tack an extra 100-150 latency on top of a latency that us oceanic players are used to gaming with by now.

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#2 IllusiveShad0ws

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:00 PM

I do feel sorry for you Aussies/Oceanic players, you guys/gals rarely catch a break with latency.

 

Hopefully a dev will respond to this.



#3 Galactic007

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:09 PM

If thats right it may be one of the dumbest things a game company has ever done (sorry Carbine but it is)

latency is not better to europe. EVER. it's worse much worse

 

sorry second dumbest. the million newb raid idea is not only the dumbest but insulting to the 60 something percent of players who don't want to raid

 

stop assuming that players who don't raid are noobs



#4 ZephyranthesX

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:12 PM

I'm an oceanic player too,do you guys have any idea if i buy the game online would I get a NA or EU key?



#5 Niagara

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:15 PM

I truly hope it's a mistake on the retailers side, it doesn't make any sense to force you to play on EU servers when they're so much worse for you than US ones.  :(  :(  :(


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#6 Shnoo

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:18 PM

Perhaps we could drill a hole through the globe and throw a long cable through it? It might come out in Australia! ;-)


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#7 Soulcoor

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:21 PM

A sad thing with this as well, is one of the Devs mentioned possibly having realms tagged as Oceanic, though not really being hosted in Australia (such as the WoW oceanic servers), so it seems these servers, if they come about would be on the European version, which is like a double kick in the face.

I do find it funny, however, that in the first question he jokingly answered he mentioned about attempting to fix the speed of light, and yet not being able to (obviously), and how this obviously has an impact on latency, all you need to do is look at a globe and find Australia to see that any European area is always going to be a worse option, and then there are routing issues on top of that.

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#8 MollyCoddle

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:21 PM

I'm pretty certain I've seen info that suggests that you can chose if you buy the NA or EU copy. You might get directed to the NA one but I'm sure they can change it for you if you ask or something ? So.. it might seem gloomy but I think there is a way round it ?



#9 Highlander

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:33 PM

Yeh I read this and just jaw drop. I have no idea what they were thinking. I don't even know how to respond. All the people that have gotten an EU copy and now need an NA one better not have to rebuy because of carbines mistake.

Hoping NCSOFT bought deluxe is NA.



#10 Tronc

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:35 PM

"It'll get a little better in Europe, but it's not as good as it needs to be."

I could have interpreted that as a slip meaning that he implying that EU won't have this issue as they will soon have there own servers.  

 

But then he mentioned this on Reddit. Link

 
Yep, we acknowledge the issue.
Pings from Down Under to Dallas are IMO pretty unplayable, though a number of people are actually sucking it up and playing from there in the beta. The pings to our Frankfurt or Korea datacenters have been much better to the point of pretty decent experience in past tests - but if there's a sufficiently big group of folks who want to play obviously a Oceanic server is best in the long haul.
We don't have a set of staff/datacenters/etc. in the region is part of what makes it tricky. In the other territories we've been able to leverage what past games have done.
Sorry for non-perfect answers on this one; I can't really argue this as being our preference but more of a "there are so many moving parts through beta and launch that this is a known thing that can suck somewhat for those involved."
In the best of all worlds if we see a lot of interest/people playing on the more reasonable ping servers we can leverage that interest into more commitment to the territory; I freely admit that the chicken and egg there is nontrivial.
 

What Korean data centre?  And like Soulcoor say's pings to EU for me are 350-400.  So yes confirmation would be great as this is also counter productive to what we are trying to achive in this thread (Labelled Oceanic Realm(s))  In which Cougar says:

 
 

I've very often said that labeling a realm as Oceanic just makes a lot of sense, even if the realm is located in Dallas. We didn't quite get the tech in early enough for this Pre-Order Weekend, but it just got finished this week (to land on live at a later date).

 

That being said, I'm not sure that the full plethora of realm options is on the table (PVE, PVP, RP, RP-PVP) for having each of those labeled Oceanic. While there are a lot of players down under, I'm not sure there are four realms worth at this point in time. That being said, that's something that actual sales data will help drive the decisions of in the next few months  :) So we don't have to make any lasting decisions on that right now!

 
 
So please reply with clarification on these two posts. Because really EU isn't an option for many AU/NZ players. 
 

 

I'm an oceanic player too,do you guys have any idea if i buy the game online would I get a NA or EU key?

I brought my direct from the store.  It's a NA version of the game.


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#11 zenatsu

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:37 PM

+1 for really long thread title.

 

What I really hope for you guys, is if there will be SEA/OC Supported servers. BUT, I think that really comes down to how many Oceanic players buy the game.


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#12 Blezzle

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 02:56 PM

 

I could have interpreted that as a slip meaning that he implying that EU won't have this issue as they will soon have there own servers.  

 

But then he mentioned this on Reddit. Link

 
 

What Korean data centre?  And like Soulcoor say's pings to EU for me are 350-400.  So yes confirmation would be great as this is also counter productive to what we are trying to achive in this thread (Labelled Oceanic Realm(s))  In which Cougar says:

 
 
 
 
So please reply with clarification on these two posts. Because really EU isn't an option for many AU/NZ players. 
 

 

I brought my direct from the store.  It's a NA version of the game.

 

 

NCsofts 2 flag ship games are Lineage and Lineage 2 which are two of the largest MMO's in the world, and the two largest in Korea. Carbine uses ncsofts data farms. So if NCsoft has a server there, Carbine may potentially have access to it. The way I have always looked at it, and I know people hate these kind of answers but, if Blizzard has still not made the investment with an already established Oceanic Community, then it would be a stretch to see any other company attempt. I do not think I have seen a single MMO, in recent memory that has provided localized Oceanic servers.


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#13 Tronc

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:02 PM

. I do not think I have seen a single MMO, in recent memory that has provided localized Oceanic servers.

 

SWTOR did with three realms, Dalborra (PvE), Master Dar'Nala (PvP) and the Gav Daragon (RP). Which out lasted many of the US servers before they were forced to merge back with the US servers.  But the exodus on that game was caused by lack of end game content, something that Wildstar seems to have addressed.  


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#14 Blezzle

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:05 PM

SWTOR did with three realms, Dalborra (PvE), Master Dar'Nala (PvP) and the Gav Daragon (RP). Which out lasted many of the US servers before they were forced to merge back with the US servers.  But the exodus on that game was caused by lack of end game content, something that Wildstar seems to have addressed.  

 

Nice point. I am assuming that EA had existing servers in the area then. That would make sense for them to be able to host it there. In the end it is all about infrastructure, and most mmo publishers do not have it in the region.


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#15 Soulcoor

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:12 PM

I certainly was not saying they should go and put up Oceanic servers, although servers labelled as oceanic, such as the ones WoW has would be nice. This is purely how they're funneling people who buy retail copies in stores in Australia into the EU servers, which have on average 100+ latency more for us.

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#16 WickedLady

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:32 PM

If indeed retailers are selling EU versions of the game, almost half of the Aust players will be on EU and the other half on NA, This is just cruel, it will split up a small community making it even harder to find groups that are playing on the same timezone, 

 

Please change this, this plan of yours hasn't been well thought out, you can see the sales data and I'm confident that majority of online pre purchasers have chosen NA for the better service! why split us up and retail the EU version while not allowing a region change...


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#17 Tronc

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:40 PM

 

Nice point. I am assuming that EA had existing servers in the area then. That would make sense for them to be able to host it there. In the end it is all about infrastructure, and most mmo publishers do not have it in the region.

 

People keep throwing this out as an argument for not localising servers.  But realistically how much do they cost?  I currently run a Data Centre, although not on the scale that would be required to run a MMO but still large enough. With the move towards Virtualisation and Cloud computing traditional server structures aren't even required any more, for a majority of the processing. 

 

As for support staff only a handful of staff or contractors would be need incase of physical failure, but even then with redundancy built in when servers do fall over these days there can be little to no impact noticed by end users.  Look at Titanfall and Azure for example.  A full cloud based MMO server platform which allows for rapid deployment and growth.  

 

 

I certainly was not saying they should go and put up Oceanic servers, although servers labelled as oceanic, such as the ones WoW has would be nice. This is purely how they're funneling people who buy retail copies in stores in Australia into the EU servers, which have on average 100+ latency more for us.

To which we have a reply from Cougar already.  A Labelled Oceanic Realm(s)

 

So if Cougar and Gaffer could possibly sit down and clarify the comments in the OP that would be terrific.  Honestly the only way I can see there not being more division now is to have A Labelled Oceanic Realm(s).  


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#18 Bunzy

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:40 PM

I do not think I have seen a single MMO, in recent memory that has provided localized Oceanic servers.

 

Planetside 2 has oceanic severs!

 

I have always wondered how free to play games (planetside 2 and league of legends) can afford oceanic servers but subscription games apparently can't ...


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#19 Pervysleaze

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 03:47 PM

I know i'm very annoyed with all this, from my time playing the beta i've really enjoyed the game but if oceanic players are going to be ignored then I may very well have to ask for a refund :( 



#20 Kuldirongaze

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 04:03 PM

I'm an oceanic player too,do you guys have any idea if i buy the game online would I get a NA or EU key?

New Zealand here. Buying from WS website gets you the NA version which I hiiiighly recommend.

 

Also why oh why would anyone suggest an EU server? Either we are misinterpreting what Gaffney said or he's epically ignorant of how things work; while at the same time giving the impression he cares.

 
What Carbine needs to do atm, is label two NA servers (one PVE and one PVP) as Oceanic much like WoW did. They also need to quickly address this "Oceanic needs to play on EU servers" stuff. They're going to really *cupcake* off some players who get the EU version.
 
Using Ping test http://www.pingtest.net/
 
New Zealand to Dallas Tx is 7,500 miles and gives me 180ms ping
New Zealand to Frankfurt is 11,300 miles and gives me 316ms ping
 
 
Dallas gives me 27Mbps download speed vs the 4Mbps I get from Frankfurt. I could't believe the difference so I repeated the test, same results.
 
EU servers for NZ at least is more than twice as bad as using NA servers.

Edited by Kuldirongaze, 17 April 2014 - 04:06 PM.

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