Edit4: In case it wasn't clearly explained... This isn't about Winning/Losing matches. it isn't about turtle comps increasing the duration of the match. It isn't about using CC to get a kill or trying to 100-0 someone. It is about the lack of CC effectiveness hurting strategy and reactionary gameplay does making the combat simple and stale.
Major change, might help with some of the issues!!! YAY
Editx2: a bit of a TL:DR 14 page thread.
To make sure I and others following along understand, the issue is:
In the game's current state, the ways to get out of Crowd Control are
1. Interrupt Armor
2. Crowd Control breaking trinkets
3. Crowd Control breaking abilities.
4. Cleanse abilities
5. AMP that takes off nearly 1/3rd of the time of Crowd Controls
6. Breakout Gameplay mechanics
7. Abilities that grant Interrupt Armor "for no reason", these abilities would be taken even without it.
(adding 8 - naruto)
8. Diminishing Returns that don't allow the same CC to be used for 10s after one use.
You're saying that it isn't any one of the above, individually, but the combination of all of them together is creating an environment where the current set of ways to inflict the current variety of Crowd Control are not only vastly outnumbered, but also inferior because the Crowd Control abilities are very specialized. This renders the ability to directly interact with your opponents and your allies to a very low degree.
^ The problem, summarized, details below.
edit: All gadgets now have a 1min CD down from 3mins, so 1min CD (2ia/CCbreaks) need to be added onto whatever is said below.
Been writing about this in other threads so I might as well make a threat about it by itself.
*This applies to all fields of pvp small and large, CC reduction, Low CD CC breaks/cleanses, and Diminishing Returns effective every gamemode/scale.*
What is killing off CCs?
An abundance Interrupt Armor, Currently every class has a way to generate a 20-30second Interrupt armor on their characrer(Even spread to allies in the area)
Medic :Protection probes with amp = 10second duration 20second CD and applies the buff + IA to allies
Engi: Obstruct Vision: 30second CD and 10second IA for allies(and amps for self IA like "on deflect gain 1IA for 5seconds)
Esper: Innate30s CD(self), phasmta armor on ally for 1ia lasting 10seconds on a 40/45s cd.
Spellsinger: Phase Shift(self) grants 1ia and 70% deflect for 3.2~ seconds at base on a 20sec cooldown
Warrior: Emergency Reserves(t0 self)(t8 allies) 25second cooldown for 6s of 1ia.
Stalker: Iron man Amp(every 2 instances of CC grants the stalker 1IA for 10seconds on 20sec cooldown)
*Pretty sure I am missing amps and other skills that generate IA, but these skills seem the most used/will be the most used postpatch)
PvP consumables: Grants 1IA for 10seconds on a 3min CD
Gadget: Can grant up to 2 IA for 10seconds on a 3min CD
CC breaks, on top of all the IA that each player can generate plus have more stacked on, if a CC does get through. You can still use your CC break that is also same/lower CD than most CCs.
Medic: Clam, 30s CD full CC break. Urgency(t4) Removes roots/holds/snares/tethers(20second CD) Antidote 6s cd Cleanse(Now removes root/snare/disorient/blind)
Engi: Shatter, 20s CD full CC break. Urgent Withdraw(t4) Removes roots/snares(?? CD, it has 3 charges and they current all refresh together)
Esper: Fade Out 30s CD full CC break. Shockwave(t8) Full CC break. Catharsis 6s cd Cleanse
Spellsinger: Void Slip 45s CD Full CC break, Purify 6s cd Cleanse
Warrior: Unstoppable Force 30s CD full CCbreak+grants immune to CC for 3.2s(t0), Leap(t4) breaks root/holds/snares/tethers(15s CD). Expulsion 8s CD cleanse
Stalker: Tactical Retreat(t4) 30s CD full CC Break
*I believe stalker/SS have less breaks/longer CDs because their gameplay mechanics allow them to have much more mobility/survivability in other ways like stealth for stalkers and SS movement + high on command deflect*
And don't forget...
- Gadgets are now usable off the GCD.
- Gadgets are now usable while casting.
- Break Free can now be used while under all Crowd Control effects.
CC Breakout mechanics
Stun: Hold a key to reduce the duration of the stun, prepatch it reduced stuns by around 40% of their original duration
Knockdown: rolling out of a knockdown, Can be done instantly with the CC effect lasting as long as a typical dash/roll animation, reducing the generate Knockdown by atleast 50% its duration
Subdue: Picking up your lost weapon... Well.. can't really judge this because its based on luck, I have picked it back up within .5s and other times it could go full duration.
Tether: The tether anchors generally have low hp(4-5k) prepatch this was about 1-2 hits, post patch I can't be sure, but the effective duration of a tether was around .5s-1.5s for any player that can deal damage.
(stealing this from pengu)
A. Stun - Can be broken with commands, CC break
B. Root - Can be cleansed, CC break, Leap skills
C. Knockdown - Can be dashed out of, CC break
D. Subdue - Pick up weapon (melee is easier than ranged), CC break.
E. Blind - Can be cleansed, CC break
F. Healing Debuff - Can be cleansed
G. Disorient - No one uses this. but can still be CCbreak/cleansed
H. Tether - CC break/Leap Skills + hit the damn thing it has 4-5k hp.
reduces the duration of a CC, each class has this AMP series which grants 30% reduction of a CC effect, this makes a typical 3-4second stun + 30% reduc + Breakout mechanics lasts around .5s-1s
Also don't forget that if you do land a stun, you can't land another stun on that same player for the next 10seconds.
DR current works in this sense. Same type CCs can't be used on top of each other for 10 seconds.
So end of the day, even if you get thru the players IA, chance them while their CC break is down, they can still either cleanse(6s cd) or use a breakout mechanic to lower an CC stacked with 30% CC resilience that makes it past giving you an effective CC of .5-1.5s resulting in a 10second DR for that CC type.
Honestly tho. All this seems insane, but sadly CCs prepatch were still very effective because the TTK[time to kill] was really low that the .5-1.5s duration of a CC effect could still result disaster for anyone.
Postpatch, with a TTK that is supposedly going to be increased(Takes longer to kill a player) due to all the Damage nerfs and what the class dev has said is intended[higher TTK],
Why is this important? Don't players generally hate CCs? "I want to be able to control my character whaaaaa" and whatever nonsense?
CCs are important to gameplay to add strategy and depth to the game. Without CCs being effective the gameplay turns into a sort of strafing wars with players just swinging at each other and the one with the better gear/luckier crits would usually win. Compared to the player that wastes his CCs or uses them poorly while another player uses them to gain an advantage. and this in the sense of a 1v1 fight. Increasing the scaling to 2/3s arenas, and the same problem, lack of CC, players just circling each other spamming their damage keys and heals.
The gameplay will turn into a brute force style. Where players taking heals and damage until one time the burst lines up to overcome to heals, or the healer runs out of focus, or some Line of Sight issues. Effective CC helps make the combat more complex. If the most complex play comes from dodging a skill... in this game? We are in trouble.
This all is more of a big PSA...
This was the meta during 2/3s last patch. Stacking of IA + cc breaks and I don't think it is about to change as it just became easier to remove some CCs and harder for players to actually kill each other.
Going forward it could use some changes... I wouldn't know where to start because I am just a player and Carbine doesn't pay me to balance the game.