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Costumes and Dye - How I hate it in this game*

customization gear dye

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#21 Monolithal

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 01:51 PM

Otherwise you could suspect people demanding Raid Gear from a Healer as a Tank cause they look better for you, vice-versa, etc pp.

 

I would absolutely not tolerate that. Raid gear is for stats first, costumes are secondary. If, and only if, nobody actually needs the item for the stats on it, would people be allowed to argue for their costume set. Lol



#22 Orbish

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:28 PM

The UI 2.0 patch includes a few notable changes to the costume and dye system.

 

We've combined both systems into a single UI now. You'll also have the option to dye costume pieces!

 

We're still planning to make usability improvements and respond to beta feedback so let us know what you think of it once you've played around with it in game! :D


Rob Martin - Senior UI Designer - Carbine Studios - @OrbishDev

#23 Malediction

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:46 PM

I honestly would be fine with classes only being able to wear their tier of gear, so that the costuming stuff (and loot in general) would never be in contention. I'm wearing a bunch of light pieces on my Exile Stalker right no because I haven't seen anything better that suited my stat priorities. I'm not a huge PvP person, but I thought I also remember seeing something to the effect of costumes not working in PvP? It's obviously a bit of a jimmie-rustle for an Esper to be decked out in an Engineer or Warrior costume in PvP. SURPRISE! I know that discussion is fairly polarizing - you either hate that idea or love it, rarely in between. That's all an entirely different topic, though.

 

GW2's new system is an iteration of DCUO, really. Both capture the essence of "customization as a means to fun". Both use it (to some extent) as a mechanism for encouraging F2P $$ transactions, but it's still widely usable without giving them a dime. The more important piece is the execution and fun-factor. I don't think anyone can argue at how trivially easy it is to make a unique look DCUO. I've done it in the middle of a raid before after winning a rare drop. It's 30 seconds in between a pull and BOOM! Fancy McPantserson.

 

Hopefully the team is still hard at work on this aspect. I've been a big fan of how this team has handled the iteration of their ideas and incorporation of good stuff from other games. A better idea is still a better idea, no matter who thought of it first.



#24 DeaHamlet

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:49 PM

I would absolutely not tolerate that. Raid gear is for stats first, costumes are secondary. If, and only if, nobody actually needs the item for the stats on it, would people be allowed to argue for their costume set. Lol

 

I thought loots for costumes was considered greed always?

 

Man even the forums can't agree on these rules and we're surprised people can't in game either.  Good thing no LFR so at least you're squabbling with friends and guildies :P.  Or more likely the guild has some rules and it's not up for discussion, so no problem.


I get it, devs, you don't care about hair styles and costumes... You shouldn't have tried to pretend, I might have liked you anyway. Now I feel like I'm at a dinner with some guy from the Internet and I find out he is really not a gamer, he just plays FIFA. I mean, he might be hot and all, but I can't help but feel like I was sold a bunch of baloney. 


#25 Baryonyx

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 06:42 AM

Hi everyone!

 

When we first discussed the costume system changes, we noted that there would be a couple of steps to getting it to where we wanted it. The March beta has the earliest parts of those changes. While not ideal, the March beta version of this system represents a necessary first step in getting the system to where it is going. The April beta will introduce a new UI for editing costumes and dyeing items that addresses many of the concerns discussed in this thread.

 

This new UI will allow you to do some things that are not possible in the March beta:

  1. You will be able to see the number of dyeable areas on a piece of gear equipped into a costume or main inventory slot. Each item can have up to 3 dyeable areas, but there are quite a few with only 1 or 2 areas. There are even some with none. This information is not available in the March beta, meaning that you are unable to make informed decisions about the dyes you're trying to apply.
  2. You will be able to selectively dye on a per area basis per item more easily. The dye controls in the previous betas have not been as clearly laid out as they will be going forward.
  3. When an item is equipped into a costume slot, it is dyeable. Gone are the days where you cannot dye gear because you have a costume equipped, or can only dye a costume piece if you equip it in your main slots.

Also, some additional information for everyone regarding some of the other points that came up:

  1. The costume system lets you equip any piece of armor, regardless of class. If you are a light armor class, you can use Medium and Heavy armor items, in addition to the Costumes and Light Armor you can normally wear. These items will apply no stats, but you can have the look.
  2. Weapons, on the other hand, have different rules. We do not allow you to use weapons as costumes if they are not for your class. Weapons also cannot be hidden. These items are iconic class identifiers, and we want them to remain that way.
  3. There are more than 2 costume slots. In the March and April beta, costume slots unlock at levels 7, 14, 25, 35, 45 and 50, for a total of 6 available to each character. The total number we will have at launch is in flux, but there will certainly be more than 2.
  4. We will still be locking editing to an NPC in the cities, as previously noted. We know that the hope from everyone is for these to be editable remotely. We're discussing how we'd like that to work, but for launch we will be using this approach, as we do not intend for costume slots to be used as a solution for carrying multiple gear sets.
  5. We don't currently support toggling base gear on and off, but it is something we can consider as a future improvement.
  6. I come from CoH, so I completely understand the desire for the system to be based on a set of unlocks that you get once and have forever. However, there are technical limitations that currently prevent us from using this approach. That's not to say it can never happen, but it is not something we can do any time soon.

Thank you for your patience as we evolve this system. Please keep the feedback coming!



#26 Elusian

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:26 AM

The UI 2.0 patch includes a few notable changes to the costume and dye system.

 

We've combined both systems into a single UI now. You'll also have the option to dye costume pieces!

 

We're still planning to make usability improvements and respond to beta feedback so let us know what you think of it once you've played around with it in game! :D

Thanks for the heads up :)

 

Will definately play with it around as character id is smth I love in MMOs aside of raiding.


On vacation until Aurin Medics are available.


#27 Naunet

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 08:36 AM

  1. Weapons, on the other hand, have different rules. We do not allow you to use weapons as costumes if they are not for your class. Weapons also cannot be hidden. These items are iconic class identifiers, and we want them to remain that way.

 

As an esper, my weapon does nothing but sit on my back and look ugly. :( I can't even unsheathe it out of combat like everyone else can. The least you could do is let me hide it.

 

Thanks for the other information, though.


"Song dogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushes the edges of a thunderstorm; and these streets, quiet as a sleeping army, send their battered dreams to heaven."


#28 Lemurian

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:50 AM

I'm glad I was right in thinking that what we had was just the first step. Can't wait for the rest.


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#29 Sikare

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:53 AM

Hell, I thought they already updated the Costume system and it just wasn't as glorious as I was hoping. I'm glad it was just a step and with this, we'll have a much better representation. Now... If only exiles had that she vendor so we could fully test out the system as well as Dominion can... :}
"Espers don't do damage, they make you THINK they do damage."<p>- A Genius

#30 Mahanaxar

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:57 AM

Hell, I thought they already updated the Costume system and it just wasn't as glorious as I was hoping. I'm glad it was just a step and with this, we'll have a much better representation. Now... If only exiles had that she vendor so we could fully test out the system as well as Dominion can... :}

 

What is this "she vendor"? Does Thayd have a red light district? :P

 

In all seriousness, I am continually impressed with Carbine's awesomeness. I'm finding it very hard to dislike anything about this game as more is revealed.


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#31 Withers

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:06 AM

Damn, the dev responses for this game are amazing. You guys rock.



#32 Raged

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:19 AM

Thank you for your patience as we evolve this system. Please keep the feedback coming!


And nothing about costumes in PvP? <_<

Please allow costumes in PvP! https://forums.wilds...e-6#entry311237



#33 Naunet

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:23 AM

And nothing about costumes in PvP? <_<

Please allow costumes in PvP! https://forums.wilds...e-6#entry311237

 

This, too! D:


"Song dogs barking at the break of dawn, lightning pushes the edges of a thunderstorm; and these streets, quiet as a sleeping army, send their battered dreams to heaven."


#34 Voqar

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 10:32 AM

I agree that it's brutal.

 

Sure, be thankful that we have dyes and a system at all - I suppose - but you would almost have to go out of your way to design something this clunky and unwieldy (maybe it's the same person who did the AH selling piece?).

 

When applying dye you should be dying whatever you are displaying - be it a costume or not.

 

Better yet, dying individual armor pieces is so 10 years ago and is clunky and tedious to maintain.  I far prefer systems - even if it's completely unrealistic - where you dye the SLOT.  This could be done per costume to help keep up the gold cost of applying dye.  But it's nice when you can just dye the slot and whatever you throw in there assumes your color scheme - that way you're not having to waste time dying any new piece you add or if you keep a lot of costume gear around you can more readily swap pieces in out when experimenting without having to worry about colors.

 

Get a new upgrade while you're out rampaging?  No problem, equip and it matches your color scheme due to dye by slot - vs now you look like bozo the clown with mismatched clothing and need to return to a special vendor in town just to pay gold to get your gear looking solid.  Ridiculous.  In fantasy you can justify ANYTHING - it's magic, right?  In sci-fi you should be able to similarly justify anything with technology - hey, it's nanobots, you can't see them so you have no idea!

 

Really, in this MMORPG day and age, dying individual pieces of gear is barbaric.

 

I'd imagine this is a case of the idea of dyes being in, and costumes were added after or later without accounting for dyes, and costumes broke dying armor, so they came up with this crappy workaround to not have to redo the whole system, since dyes are kind of fluffy and trivial and sorting it out for real can be patched in under the we pay 15/mo to finally get the whole game functional part of the MMORPG process.

 


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#35 Withers

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:14 AM

This is something totally off the wall, but it would be really cool if every time you equipped a piece of armor, a skin of it gets saved in an account wide database for any of your characters to use for costumes. :)



#36 DeaHamlet

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:26 AM

I agree that it's brutal.

 

Sure, be thankful that we have dyes and a system at all - I suppose - but you would almost have to go out of your way to design something this clunky and unwieldy (maybe it's the same person who did the AH selling piece?).

 

When applying dye you should be dying whatever you are displaying - be it a costume or not.

 

Better yet, dying individual armor pieces is so 10 years ago and is clunky and tedious to maintain.  I far prefer systems - even if it's completely unrealistic - where you dye the SLOT.  This could be done per costume to help keep up the gold cost of applying dye.  But it's nice when you can just dye the slot and whatever you throw in there assumes your color scheme - that way you're not having to waste time dying any new piece you add or if you keep a lot of costume gear around you can more readily swap pieces in out when experimenting without having to worry about colors.

 

Get a new upgrade while you're out rampaging?  No problem, equip and it matches your color scheme due to dye by slot - vs now you look like bozo the clown with mismatched clothing and need to return to a special vendor in town just to pay gold to get your gear looking solid.  Ridiculous.  In fantasy you can justify ANYTHING - it's magic, right?  In sci-fi you should be able to similarly justify anything with technology - hey, it's nanobots, you can't see them so you have no idea!

 

Really, in this MMORPG day and age, dying individual pieces of gear is barbaric.

 

I'd imagine this is a case of the idea of dyes being in, and costumes were added after or later without accounting for dyes, and costumes broke dying armor, so they came up with this crappy workaround to not have to redo the whole system, since dyes are kind of fluffy and trivial and sorting it out for real can be patched in under the we pay 15/mo to finally get the whole game functional part of the MMORPG process.

 

It's a gold sink.  The only game I know of that remembers your color scheme was GW2 and at first I thought it was a glitch.  Mind you, you pay REAL money for dyes in GW2 so maybe they have some sort of motivation to make them unlock once and have and make them remember your color choices.

 

On top of which GW2's dye system is some of the most robust I've seen but it's also a source of money for them...


I get it, devs, you don't care about hair styles and costumes... You shouldn't have tried to pretend, I might have liked you anyway. Now I feel like I'm at a dinner with some guy from the Internet and I find out he is really not a gamer, he just plays FIFA. I mean, he might be hot and all, but I can't help but feel like I was sold a bunch of baloney. 


#37 Xephyr

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:11 PM

I just need to know one thing ........CAN I GET THE SPACE HELMET FROM SHIPHAND MISSIONS AS A COSTUME ITEM? It's sooooooo awesome.  :wub:


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#38 ruff1298

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:43 PM

Thank you, this is a vast improvement.



#39 Lemurian

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 04:06 PM

I'd imagine this is a case of the idea of dyes being in, and costumes were added after or later without accounting for dyes, and costumes broke dying armor, so they came up with this crappy workaround to not have to redo the whole system, since dyes are kind of fluffy and trivial and sorting it out for real can be patched in under the we pay 15/mo to finally get the whole game functional part of the MMORPG process.

 

You'd be wrong about how things developed. Also reading the whole thread (at least for dev responses) helps.


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#40 Ael_Bundy

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 06:11 PM

 
[*]We will still be locking editing to an NPC in the cities, as previously noted. We know that the hope from everyone is for these to be editable remotely. We're discussing how we'd like that to work, but for launch we will be using this approach, as we do not intend for costume slots to be used as a solution for carrying multiple gear sets.[/*]


Wait so, come launch we won't be able to edit our costumes just anywhere? That's dismaying but I suppose I could live with it; however, does this also mean that we won't be able to remotely toggle armor display on and off anymore? The restriction wouldn't be so bad if I'm still able to go shoeless/shirtless/pantsless on a whim. :P



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