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Path requires developer attention?


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#1 Emissary

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 09:27 AM

I know we are still playing beta, but release is now just around the corner, so it seems a reasonable time to raise concerns over what is currently implemented:

 

 

The Soldier path is noticeably poor in terms of our skill bar rewards.

 

Back in the Fray is far less useful than spending a couple of silver on food, mostly due to the long cooldown.

Bail Out seems like it might be vaguely useful for avoiding wipes in group content, but can't actually be used there and has no other sensible use.

Combat Supply Drop provides us with items that can't be competitive because they'd be considered OP for solo content, so are instead weak and uninteresting limited use items. Why isn't there even an animation for this ability? The least I hoped for was a cool looking drop pod.

 

 

As things currently stand I actually find it difficult to choose which skill to put on my bar because they are all so disappointing. I tend to go for Back in the Fray since it has vague utility after every (extremely long) cooldown.

 

Now, paths in general do not provide that much in the way of interesting skill rewards, but after seeing friends dropping temporary vendors, with additional teleports and even with more fun jumping, I find that Soldier has very little appeal. I like the content, but at the end of the day I will play through content I enjoy less for a reward that is actually worth something.

 

Sorry for ranting slightly, but does anyone else feel similar at this point? I feel this path needs some attention urgently to make it a worthwhile choice at launch.


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#2 Exxcar

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:07 AM

Agreed 100% I did my first dungeon and my scientist buddy summoned all of us to the instance, then the settler dropped a vendor so we could repair and stock up... and I was just sitting there like... I can heal myself... once in a blue moon. Then I looked at the other abilities and I was like... wait, do I really get anything that other people don't have by default? Yes paths aren't supposed to give anything gamebreaking, but when others can literally summon everyone in a group or unlock special areas, you really start to see that soldier gets nothing comparable. 

 

I've since changed my mind and will probably go one of the other paths simply because there is absolutely no benefit to soldier in its current state. 


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#3 Balthazad

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

Don't particularly care for the Soldier path, but I believe there are some paths whose abilities seem lacking.

Particularly thinking Explorer here. The only somewhat useful ability, in my opinion, is the Translocate Beacon. Which merely acts as a second *customized* Return feature. Compare that to the Settler's ability to summon a vendor, ability trainer, mailbox AND..something else which I seem to have forgotten - it seems somewhat redundant. Again, the Scientist has Group Summon and a transport ability, however unlike the Explorer's it can be used by other people as well. (Perhaps this was intentional? Seems there are 2 paths that directly contribute to your team, as such get rewards that do aswell, whereas the other 2 Paths that don't, don't.)

 

Tho I do feel that the Soldier and Explorer paths are somewhat more fun than Settler and Scientist. Both seem a bit grindy to me. Settler needs a shitload of materials(which luckily can be obtained thru mobs) and Scientist needs to scan a whole lot of stuff, sometimes including corpses of mobs (which tend to be more than your average quest, so you'd do your quest, then still need to kill 15 more mobs simply to scan 'em).

 

So in my eyes, altho Soldier and Explorer's path abilities generally suck, their missions are more fun in general. Is it intended? Is it considered a compromise? I'm not sure. However I do believe that it could, and should, be tweaked. Both the Path rewards and said path missions. :3


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#4 Krytus

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 10:48 PM

Agreed 100% too. Been trying to get developer atention into this for quite a while.

 

 

Don't particularly care for the Soldier path, but I believe there are some paths whose abilities seem lacking.

Particularly thinking Explorer here. The only somewhat useful ability, in my opinion, is the Translocate Beacon. Which merely acts as a second *customized* Return feature. Compare that to the Settler's ability to summon a vendor, ability trainer, mailbox AND..something else which I seem to have forgotten - it seems somewhat redundant. Again, the Scientist has Group Summon and a transport ability, however unlike the Explorer's it can be used by other people as well. (Perhaps this was intentional? Seems there are 2 paths that directly contribute to your team, as such get rewards that do aswell, whereas the other 2 Paths that don't, don't.)

 

Tho I do feel that the Soldier and Explorer paths are somewhat more fun than Settler and Scientist. Both seem a bit grindy to me. Settler needs a shitload of materials(which luckily can be obtained thru mobs) and Scientist needs to scan a whole lot of stuff, sometimes including corpses of mobs (which tend to be more than your average quest, so you'd do your quest, then still need to kill 15 more mobs simply to scan 'em).

 

So in my eyes, altho Soldier and Explorer's path abilities generally suck, their missions are more fun in general. Is it intended? Is it considered a compromise? I'm not sure. However I do believe that it could, and should, be tweaked. Both the Path rewards and said path missions. :3

 

I wouldn’t say that explorer and soldier missions are more fun they have a more wider appeal and they feel less like farming, and a lot of people hate to be picking stuff all the time or they do not care about lore. But exchanging utility for fun should NOT be the way paths are or a least is not whet the dev speak tell us.

 

I am not asking to have the same perks as settler do but right now they are so overwhelming that I am either picking Scientist or Settler and that’s not because I am love to pick stuff up is because they have real use in groups and will be something that really helps Raids, Warplots, Dungeons and Adventures and since all the abilities are supposed to be PvE only then that means they are useful for most part of the end game.


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#5 Emissary

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:47 AM

Particularly thinking Explorer here. 

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree slightly with the Explorer, although they are perhaps next in line after the Soldier for uselessness. While their abilities are lacklustre, they at least have some utility and some level of fun and interesting gameplay. They do actually encourage and enable exploration and I know enough guild-mates who quite like the path as it is.

 

The only reason I actually posted my concerns for the Soldier is that they genuinely gain near to 0 in terms of utility or fun. The abilities would go totally ignored on my toolbar for most of the game. This to me seems to be a point at which this feature is therefore broken. If something doesn't work at all then it really needs to be looked at.

 

It should not be a case that difficult paths to level give better rewards, and if that is the intention then it should certainly be made clearer, since there are plenty of MMO players out there who will do whatever necessary to get the best for their character.

 

 

As far as I can tell, Soldiers used to have useful abilities, but these appear to have been altered/removed.



#6 Balthazad

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 03:50 PM

Okey, so it appears we have to ask ourselves what the purpose of a Path is. Is it merely an extra time killer? A source of fun? Or are we after the abilities it offers?

Fairly sure we could easily make cases for the first two questions, however the last would take some convincing from either side. :3

 

PS:

 

Particularly thinking Explorer here. 

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree slightly with the Explorer, although they are perhaps next in line after the Soldier for uselessness.

 

Tho I do feel that the Soldier and Explorer paths are somewhat more fun than Settler and Scientist. 

Curious as to how you've come to disagree with me, we seem to have the exact same views. :D


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#7 Wondo

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 12:50 PM

Overview of Path abilities

I have played all 4 paths to around the level 12-15 path level. I have done both level 20 dungeons multiple times as well as pvp-ed in BG's, and did group and solo questing throughout the beta. Both Settler and Scientists are very appreciated in a group PVE setting for the repair vendor(settler) and group summon(scientist). Explorer abilities are pretty fun for solo questing and for exploring although I only tend to use the fall reduction one. Soldiers abilities however do not have a place for any part of the game. For a path that is very combat oriented there really isn't much to offer a group for combat. The full heal HP I have on my bar but have never used it considering that you regen health very fast out of combat(which is when you can only use this). The Bail Out doesn't seem useful since A. you have no idea where you will be sent to, B. preventing a full wipe by bailing out in an open world setting is pointless because of the rezzing graveyards are very numerous and reapir costs are low and infrequent while questing. The Weapon crate should be removed as it is not useful at all. I am not interested in using a weapon that isn't as effective as my LAS. 

 

Soldier Ability Suggestions:

Here are some ideas I was thinking about..names could be made more "Wildstar" like or have different names I was just going for basic concepts.

 

Field Medic- for armor repairs. not a vendor like the settler, but just to repair. I think it fits with the path. It makes sense to me that Settlers get a vendor and soldiers should get the repair station.

 

Rations- Place a crate of rations on the ground. could be like the food consumables that give you a buff to stats after eaten. and could just be like basic food based on your current level only giving 1 stat. That way if no one had specialized food for their class for an encounter they could at least have some rations and get like a basic Grit buff, which I think fits the soldier path. usable in instances but not in pvp.

 

Rally- Teleport to a party member. I mean the other classes have ways of moving people in your group or creating portals, It seems only right that soldier have some kind of teleporting skill. Being able to teleport to a single party member seems appropriate and differs from the scientists group summon.

 

Ambush- group stealth for like...5-10 seconds. not usable in instances or pvp

 

Camouflage- stealth only for the soldier for a brief time. not usable in instances or pvp

 

Anyone else have some Soldier Ability Ideas? It's not too late! The Settler abilities got reworked a week or two ago. 


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#8 Krytus

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:11 PM

Overview of Path abilities

I have played all 4 paths to around the level 12-15 path level. I have done both level 20 dungeons multiple times as well as pvp-ed in BG's, and did group and solo questing throughout the beta. Both Settler and Scientists are very appreciated in a group PVE setting for the repair vendor(settler) and group summon(scientist). Explorer abilities are pretty fun for solo questing and for exploring although I only tend to use the fall reduction one. Soldiers abilities however do not have a place for any part of the game. For a path that is very combat oriented there really isn't much to offer a group for combat. The full heal HP I have on my bar but have never used it considering that you regen health very fast out of combat(which is when you can only use this). The Bail Out doesn't seem useful since A. you have no idea where you will be sent to, B. preventing a full wipe by bailing out in an open world setting is pointless because of the rezzing graveyards are very numerous and reapir costs are low and infrequent while questing. The Weapon crate should be removed as it is not useful at all. I am not interested in using a weapon that isn't as effective as my LAS. 

 

Soldier Ability Suggestions:

Here are some ideas I was thinking about..names could be made more "Wildstar" like or have different names I was just going for basic concepts.

 

Field Medic- for armor repairs. not a vendor like the settler, but just to repair. I think it fits with the path. It makes sense to me that Settlers get a vendor and soldiers should get the repair station.

 

Rations- Place a crate of rations on the ground. could be like the food consumables that give you a buff to stats after eaten. and could just be like basic food based on your current level only giving 1 stat. That way if no one had specialized food for their class for an encounter they could at least have some rations and get like a basic Grit buff, which I think fits the soldier path. usable in instances but not in pvp.

 

Rally- Teleport to a party member. I mean the other classes have ways of moving people in your group or creating portals, It seems only right that soldier have some kind of teleporting skill. Being able to teleport to a single party member seems appropriate and differs from the scientists group summon.

 

Ambush- group stealth for like...5-10 seconds. not usable in instances or pvp

 

Camouflage- stealth only for the soldier for a brief time. not usable in instances or pvp

 

Anyone else have some Soldier Ability Ideas? It's not too late! The Settler abilities got reworked a week or two ago. 

 

I made a post with a complet rebalance of the abilities a long time ago and I even reposted it after forums wipe: https://forums.wilds...balancing paths


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#9 Sirius Zand

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:16 AM

Overview of Path abilities

I have played all 4 paths to around the level 12-15 path level. I have done both level 20 dungeons multiple times as well as pvp-ed in BG's, and did group and solo questing throughout the beta. Both Settler and Scientists are very appreciated in a group PVE setting for the repair vendor(settler) and group summon(scientist). Explorer abilities are pretty fun for solo questing and for exploring although I only tend to use the fall reduction one. Soldiers abilities however do not have a place for any part of the game. For a path that is very combat oriented there really isn't much to offer a group for combat. The full heal HP I have on my bar but have never used it considering that you regen health very fast out of combat(which is when you can only use this). The Bail Out doesn't seem useful since A. you have no idea where you will be sent to, B. preventing a full wipe by bailing out in an open world setting is pointless because of the rezzing graveyards are very numerous and reapir costs are low and infrequent while questing. The Weapon crate should be removed as it is not useful at all. I am not interested in using a weapon that isn't as effective as my LAS. 

 

Soldier Ability Suggestions:

Here are some ideas I was thinking about..names could be made more "Wildstar" like or have different names I was just going for basic concepts.

 

Field Medic- for armor repairs. not a vendor like the settler, but just to repair. I think it fits with the path. It makes sense to me that Settlers get a vendor and soldiers should get the repair station.

 

Rations- Place a crate of rations on the ground. could be like the food consumables that give you a buff to stats after eaten. and could just be like basic food based on your current level only giving 1 stat. That way if no one had specialized food for their class for an encounter they could at least have some rations and get like a basic Grit buff, which I think fits the soldier path. usable in instances but not in pvp.

 

Rally- Teleport to a party member. I mean the other classes have ways of moving people in your group or creating portals, It seems only right that soldier have some kind of teleporting skill. Being able to teleport to a single party member seems appropriate and differs from the scientists group summon.

 

Ambush- group stealth for like...5-10 seconds. not usable in instances or pvp

 

Camouflage- stealth only for the soldier for a brief time. not usable in instances or pvp

 

Anyone else have some Soldier Ability Ideas? It's not too late! The Settler abilities got reworked a week or two ago. 

 

I like the field medic suggestion. The Settler path seems a little *too* good in terms of utility compared to the other paths, this would tone it down just a tiny bit while giving the Soldier at least some utility. Still way less than any other path, but at least it would be better than that crate drop. Soldier definitely needs attention in any case, as it stands it's really hard to justify choosing this path.


Aaaw Shoot...


#10 Flinder

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:24 AM

I was sort of expecting them to take the Repair function off the Settler's vendbot and give it to the Soldiers. And also to move either Summon Group or Portal to Capital from Scientist to Explorer. Then you'd have something approximating parity of group utility among the Paths.

 

Instead they gave Settler (already the most useful) Summon Mailbox, Trainer and Crafting station.

 

Its really hard to believe they'd do that unless they had something up their sleeves for the other three.


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#11 Sirius Zand

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 09:59 AM

I was sort of expecting them to take the Repair function off the Settler's vendbot and give it to the Soldiers. And also to move either Summon Group or Portal to Capital from Scientist to Explorer. Then you'd have something approximating parity of group utility among the Paths.

 

Instead they gave Settler (already the most useful) Summon Mailbox, Trainer and Crafting station.

 

Its really hard to believe they'd do that unless they had something up their sleeves for the other three.

 

Unless they're afraid certain paths are less enjoyable than others and will be underplayed, compensating with better path abilities. Though having said that, despite being by far the least 'useful' path, I would imagine Soldier can also get a little repetitive in the long term. 


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#12 Loken.Stjernvarg

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 10:00 AM

Sad to say, but the soldier-path needs some serious work, if you compare it with the other 3 paths. I really liked the idea behind it, but leveling a soldier just for the Title isn't that great, if most (if not all) abilities aren't that useful at all.

Wasn't there a good / honest feedback about it during closed beta, cause it's a bit Late to "redesign" a whole path? (Sorry if it is too straight)

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#13 Ico

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 01:43 AM

I know we are still playing beta, but release is now just around the corner, so it seems a reasonable time to raise concerns over what is currently implemented:

 

 

The Soldier path is noticeably poor in terms of our skill bar rewards.

 

Back in the Fray is far less useful than spending a couple of silver on food, mostly due to the long cooldown.

Bail Out seems like it might be vaguely useful for avoiding wipes in group content, but can't actually be used there and has no other sensible use.

Combat Supply Drop provides us with items that can't be competitive because they'd be considered OP for solo content, so are instead weak and uninteresting limited use items. Why isn't there even an animation for this ability? The least I hoped for was a cool looking drop pod.

 

 

As things currently stand I actually find it difficult to choose which skill to put on my bar because they are all so disappointing. I tend to go for Back in the Fray since it has vague utility after every (extremely long) cooldown.

 

Now, paths in general do not provide that much in the way of interesting skill rewards, but after seeing friends dropping temporary vendors, with additional teleports and even with more fun jumping, I find that Soldier has very little appeal. I like the content, but at the end of the day I will play through content I enjoy less for a reward that is actually worth something.

 

Sorry for ranting slightly, but does anyone else feel similar at this point? I feel this path needs some attention urgently to make it a worthwhile choice at launch.

 

Back in the Fray is the only ability I've found with much use, and even then it's for cheating in PvP by dropping combat, popping it, then jumping "back into the fray".  In PvE though you're right it serves little purpose.

 

There's not currently enough rewards around paths I feel to make them worth it, along with soldiers have about 3/4 different types of holdout, which all play the same really makes the content a bit repetitive.  

 

I do love all the murder we get to do, but it needs more tailored rewards (like what happened the the soldier cosmetic items from CBT3?) and someway of making them harder for solo players! 


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#14 Locoratos

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 12:04 PM

Thanks guys for the feedback. We have been listening and sadly it is a bit late to do an entire overhaul designing soldier. I can say safely that we are making changes and adding things here and there so that the Path's itself will mean more in the long run.

 

Hopefully you all will enjoy some of the changes. Also keep in mind that each path caters to a different player type and were never meant to be equal. Each Path has its strength and weakness. SWAT for example are only given to soldiers and allows them to kill specific content mobs much faster than any other path (not including quest weapons).

 

Again thanks for the feedback and we are watching all these threads to see where we can improve.

 

See you on Nexus.



#15 Byonaa

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:06 PM

I agree, i have always thought it was a matter of time until they give Soldiers something useful, but it seems launch is getting very close now with no luck yet.

 

Currently looking at my guilds roster i see 72% Scientist+Settler and 28% Soldier+Explorer... Many of those Scientists and Settlers were originally something else, but utility > fun... I am personally sticking with Soldier but i will ignore path missions until i am level 50 and have nothing else to do... Then i will cross my fingers and wait for the patch that is coming in the future if not now that will buff Soldier utility... Call it psychic power if you will, its happening, because it makes no sense otherwise.. xD


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#16 Emissary

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 08:44 AM

Also keep in mind that each path caters to a different player type and were never meant to be equal. Each Path has its strength and weakness. 

 

Thanks very much for the response Locoratos. It feels really good to be on a forum for a AAA game where developers actually interact with all of us players!

 

 

I think the way you are making the paths varied is great, but I think perhaps whatever the "player type" that Soldier is aimed at was lost somewhere along the way. You are right that SWAT weapons make some questing easier, and that's fun when it works, but that's only really of interest to people rushing to level or who find the content too challenging.

 

Throughout the development of this game I have seen Carbine focusing on the Elder Game, which is something that I think is key to the reason this game appeals to so many of us. However, I feel this approach is missing when it comes to paths. At the end of the day, I will be spending the first week getting to cap and then the rest of my time playing Elder Game. If my path offers me nothing at Elder Game then I will happily put up with doing content I am not as fond of, if it enables me to get rewards that are still relevant.

 

I really doubt we're going to be getting SWAT weapons inside raids or arenas, but if we are then I am happy to stand corrected!

 

 

 

If you are able, please just reassure us that Carbine are aware there is very limited Elder Game utility for Soldiers and that this is something that you would ideally address post-release?

 

That way I can still roll Soldier without feeling I was dooming my character to sub-par utility for however many hundred hours I put into this game.


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#17 Ireheart

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 01:15 PM

/signed 

 

Something needs to be improved; I enjoy the holdouts and assassinations but raid utility wins out for a choice!

 

Even just moving the 'repair bot' from the settler to us and making the settlers one just a vendor as someone mentioned above would make this a lot more appealing.



#18 Byonaa

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 10:03 PM

Thanks guys for the feedback. We have been listening and sadly it is a bit late to do an entire overhaul designing soldier. I can say safely that we are making changes and adding things here and there so that the Path's itself will mean more in the long run.

 

Hopefully you all will enjoy some of the changes. Also keep in mind that each path caters to a different player type and were never meant to be equal. Each Path has its strength and weakness. SWAT for example are only given to soldiers and allows them to kill specific content mobs much faster than any other path (not including quest weapons).

 

Again thanks for the feedback and we are watching all these threads to see where we can improve.

 

See you on Nexus.

 

I understand that it is too late to do any changes before live... But i expect a change to Soldier abilities happening in one of the patches after live, no rush but as long as its happening i'll stick with the Soldier, because i like to kill things :D

 

Each path catering to different player type is not a valid answer for me because most of our complaints come from the abilities we get, not the Soldier content... If Soldier wasn't our type of content then we wouldn't be upset about the rewards, we would just play the other paths... Soldier is indeed my play style, i like to kill things, i like to fight as many mobs as i can, i wouldn't mind leveling from 1 to 50 by just standing in 1 spot killing mobs, that is not the problem with the Soldier path, the problem is the abilities we get from it, they are useless in comparison to summoning your raid to you or summoning vending machine.


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#19 Loken.Stjernvarg

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 08:41 AM

Thanks guys for the feedback. We have been listening and sadly it is a bit late to do an entire overhaul designing soldier. I can say safely that we are making changes and adding things here and there so that the Path's itself will mean more in the long run.

 

Hopefully you all will enjoy some of the changes. Also keep in mind that each path caters to a different player type and were never meant to be equal. Each Path has its strength and weakness. SWAT for example are only given to soldiers and allows them to kill specific content mobs much faster than any other path (not including quest weapons).

 

Again thanks for the feedback and we are watching all these threads to see where we can improve.

 

See you on Nexus.

 

Thank you Locoratos.

 

I think (at least IMHO) the problem with the Soldier-path isn't about the Mission Typs (I love the Rescue OPs!). Ok, maybe some Hold Out's needs some work, but it's the abilities where the Soldier falls behind compared to the other Paths especially Scientist (Summon Group & Create Portal) or Settler (Vendbot & Report Home).

 

If I could make some changes, I would do something like this:

 

  • Back into the Fray
    The out-of-combat heal is kind of useless if you heal up real fast.  Lets Upgrade it to a  Self-Rez! Sure it would need a high cooldown (once an hour or so), but thats what I would call "Back into the Fray!" (Or if you ask me I would call it "Vengeance!")
     
  • Bail Out!
    The Idea behind it is nice, but ... I don't know it doesn't work out. (Hard to say, sorry). I don't want to "steal" an ability from other paths, but the "Summon Group" of the Scientist cries loud as a Soldier-Path ability called "Stand-By Duty!" or "Call to Arms!" (or any other military expression)
  • Combat Supply Drop
    I like this one, same with the other combat supplies in the open world (Stun grenades FTW!), but please, let them stay in my inventory and don't get lost if I log out. (Dunno what about some Med-Kits into the Combat Suppy Drop too ... or a Flash Grenade (blinds the foe))

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#20 Alesmord

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 09:19 AM

If I remember right they said already that Path skills wont be usable in PvE or PvP and would only work in OWPvP and OWPvE.