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Stalker tank

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#1 Flik

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:36 AM

Hey everyone,

 

New weekend BT here.(DD purchaser). MY question is if a Stalker main tank is viable at end game? I am very interested by the class mechanic from videos but don't want to be relegated to "off tank". If I understand the class correctly I will have to use dodge mechanics as my main defense when tanking.....will this equal loss of aggro on the boss? Any opinions from a stalker that has tried tanking?



#2 Nib

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 09:39 AM

I believe every class is doable as main tank depending on how you play it. Stalkers have many ways it seems atm to be viable + weapons that can help too.



#3 Amayasu

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:11 AM

Yes, the class can tank well.

 

Threat isn't a problem. Spikes aren't too much of a problem. When discussing Dodging you need to remember this game has two types; active Dashing (i.e. you move out of a telegraph) and RNG deflection.

 

All tanks should do the first.

 

Stalkers do a little more of the second.

 

They have some reasonable tools to mitigate damage, too.

 

The Stalker lacks a real "oh snap" ability however, and Carbine seem incredibly reluctant to explain why they don't or give them one. The other two tanks can turtle up very quickly. That may lead to some progression guilds moving them into an Off Tank role. Maybe. But it's waaaaay too early to tell.

 

The headline is this: Stalkers can tank. If you like the Stalker, and want to tank, do it.



#4 Regen

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:29 AM

Yes, however keep in mind a few things. There aren't necessarily going to be a ton of fights where there are actual "offtanks", many fights are straight up multiple tank fights.

 

The concept of offtanks is usually self imposed by players and/or guilds.



#5 TehAcidBaron

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:54 AM

All thanks when geared to the proper gear levels function fine. All mechanics that insta gib you would generally mean you did something wrong during the fight or the raid/group did. 

 

Stalkers are based more on deflect, what works. We have safe guards in place if there would have to occur an unfortunate series of said hits. As with all fights some mechanics will favor deflect tanks more, Stormtalon vet being one of them as it reduces the number of hits on other from the debuff. 

 

Dodge is something every tank has to use and is not to be mistaken for deflect what is an avoidance gear stat, what we have actives for that buff it even further. In some way you can compare it to a monk tank with an upkeep of buffs. What makes it interesting to play as you're balancing out between threat and defensive stats. Although i'm pretty sure all tanks have a similar system in place. Before anyone comments i believe threat decay isn't active yet what makes you keep threat for almost forever. 


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#6 gz1987

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:55 AM

Yes, i am also interested in the stalker they are interesting for sure. I am torn between Warrior or Stalker i have seen alot more guilds use stalker because of threat issued with the warrior. I am sure stalkers can so called Main Tank also from what i see the dmg taken isn't that much greater.



#7 Isgu

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:04 PM

The Stalker lacks a real "oh snap" ability however, and Carbine seem incredibly reluctant to explain why they don't or give them one.

 

Probably my biggest issue with the tanking side of the stalker.

Atm it does not seem to matter much, and as Amayasu said it's early to tell but even with the newest changes to our innate it's still way behind the ones a Warrior and a Engi get.


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#8 gz1987

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:10 PM

yea but that is the point, if they had an innate like them then they would be OP stalkers are different because they have an additional deflect/dodge or whatever they have lol. doesnt mean that they suck..



#9 TehAcidBaron

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:19 PM

Abilities that help you survive are generally more passive based from the stalker and unlocked through amps. I also believe our innate recently got buffed to always offer some extra avoidance on using it and coming out of stealth (what is instantly in most cases)  

 

It's also unwise to compare simply the innates from other tanks and rank the stalker based on that as not having a bigger on long cd innate doesn't make us initially weaker. 

 

I had no issues in raids or veteran runs and i wasn't overly geared it being my OS.


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#10 kolock

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:26 PM

Stalker tank just seems so unreal to me , I wouldnt want one in my raid group.



#11 Isgu

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:55 PM

yea but that is the point, if they had an innate like them then they would be OP stalkers are different because they have an additional deflect/dodge or whatever they have lol. doesnt mean that they suck..

 

Never said they suck nor that the innate should be like the ones the Warrior and the Engineer have.

Just wanted to point out that compared to, it is quite weak and uninspired.

Also the same way Stalkers have more deflect, the heavy armor tanks have higher resistances, so it's not like they innately have supperior avoidance, it's a trade-off.


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#12 Blezzle

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 01:02 PM

Currently 2 of the 20 man raids main double stalker tanks.

 

Do not take this to mean that there will not be changes at launch though. As it stands right now Stalkers can almost completely close the armor gap, even though they use medium armor giving them within 5% of the same resistance of heavy armor users. On top of this they are going to have 15-25% more deflect rating, based on procs, life leech, and innately higher threat.

 

People saying that stalkers are all deflect, have not seen a stalker tank in action. They are the full package minus a damage reduction cd. They are currently overbalanced, and expect a little bit of toning prior to launch. That is to say unless they were toned down a bit with WB4. I just rerolled my stalker to practice speed leveling runs.


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#13 Amayasu

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:05 PM

Stalker tank just seems so unreal to me , I wouldnt want one in my raid group.

 

You seem remarkably closed-minded, so I wouldn't want you in mine.

 

Reality: the class can tank.

 

As could Druids, Ninjas, Assassins, Riftstalkers, Paladins, Monks... etc etc.



#14 Stabarus

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:29 PM

Currently 2 of the 20 man raids main double stalker tanks.

 

Do not take this to mean that there will not be changes at launch though. As it stands right now Stalkers can almost completely close the armor gap, even though they use medium armor giving them within 5% of the same resistance of heavy armor users. On top of this they are going to have 15-25% more deflect rating, based on procs, life leech, and innately higher threat.

 

People saying that stalkers are all deflect, have not seen a stalker tank in action. They are the full package minus a damage reduction cd. They are currently overbalanced, and expect a little bit of toning prior to launch. That is to say unless they were toned down a bit with WB4. I just rerolled my stalker to practice speed leveling runs.

 

My thought's exactly.  As a semi-geared L50 stalker tank I have about 55% damage reduction base.  I can actively raise it by 20% plus in a second or two.  Additionally I have 31.5% deflect base, and can raise that to about 40% for 8 of every 18 seconds.  Plus, with T8 steadfast I have a 2 second 100% deflect for all skills, which also gives 15 SP for skill I deflect, which allows me to spam nano-field constnatly to regen health.  And I have a gadget that gives 5k health when I really need an extra bit.

I get hit for a bunch on the STL vet bosses, but so do the warrior/engineer tanks, difference is I can handle them in DPS spec, but they have trouble holding me in DPS spec.

 

http://www.twitch.tv...nshap/c/3923528

 

There's a video of me tanking STL vet first boss.  Two DPS died so it took quite a long time, but we got it down.  I swapped out my bar to change frenzy to Amp Strike after the boss fight, which made tanking somewhat easier.  Made no difference in threat gen, and the extra crit deflect made a noticeable difference in their crit chance on me.

 



#15 Mule Skinner

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:54 PM

Currently 2 of the 20 man raids main double stalker tanks.

 

Do not take this to mean that there will not be changes at launch though. As it stands right now Stalkers can almost completely close the armor gap, even though they use medium armor giving them within 5% of the same resistance of heavy armor users. On top of this they are going to have 15-25% more deflect rating, based on procs, life leech, and innately higher threat.

 

People saying that stalkers are all deflect, have not seen a stalker tank in action. They are the full package minus a damage reduction cd. They are currently overbalanced, and expect a little bit of toning prior to launch. That is to say unless they were toned down a bit with WB4. I just rerolled my stalker to practice speed leveling runs.

 

 

My thought's exactly.  As a semi-geared L50 stalker tank I have about 55% damage reduction base.  I can actively raise it by 20% plus in a second or two.  Additionally I have 31.5% deflect base, and can raise that to about 40% for 8 of every 18 seconds.  Plus, with T8 steadfast I have a 2 second 100% deflect for all skills, which also gives 15 SP for skill I deflect, which allows me to spam nano-field constnatly to regen health.  And I have a gadget that gives 5k health when I really need an extra bit.

I get hit for a bunch on the STL vet bosses, but so do the warrior/engineer tanks, difference is I can handle them in DPS spec, but they have trouble holding me in DPS spec.

 

As a fairly experienced tank in other MMOS, generally I understand the "avoidance" in "avoidance tank" to be a synonym for "not really a". However, if I can get a stalker that close to everyone else's mitigation, and have extra self heals on call, that probably would do the job.

 

Would either of you care to post the builds you are using to achieve that? When I tried playing with things on online builders, it sure seemed like warrior had a lot more mitigation tools.



#16 Rethan

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 06:42 PM

Stalkers are great tanks right now, but we know for a fact that they are not complete due to some issues with the AMPs. Until those are resolved or the game goes live as is, it is purely speculation as to how they will be once things really get started. As is, if the content is cutting edge and you are going at it from the perspective of a guild just breaking into that content, you will likely want an engineer. The idea that every stalker tank will get within 5% of a heavy is going to be a misnomer. You have to ideally gear for that and it does take time and money (some crafted, some drops/raid purchased). You will not find the "average" stalker tank approaching the "average" warrior/engineer tank in relation to raw physical mitigation.



#17 Voison

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:33 PM

Stalker tanks in PvP are awesome! Well they were during closed beta... ;)


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#18 Mule Skinner

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:04 AM

The idea that every stalker tank will get within 5% of a heavy is going to be a misnomer. You have to ideally gear for that and it does take time and money (some crafted, some drops/raid purchased). You will not find the "average" stalker tank approaching the "average" warrior/engineer tank in relation to raw physical mitigation.

 

Well, see this is the flip side to my previous message. If this in fact ends up being the case, then groups will start asking for warrior/engineer tanks only. If that happens, then I'm sorry, but the stalker is not really a tank. Those who want to tank should look elsewhere.

 

What they eventually had to do in SWTOR with their "avoidance tank" ("avoidance" of course is a word that comes to us from Old French meaning "not really a"), was redesign the whole class so that all tanks could acheive the same mitigation. If you do anything else, groups will refuse to accept that the lower-mitigation toons are actually tanks.

 

Wildstar will figure this out eventually. The only question is how long it takes them.



#19 Sebrent

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 08:13 AM

Currently Stalker's are quite viable tanks. This proves that it is possible in this game since a state where they are viable has been solidly established.

 

Speculating about what will change with classes in the future doesn't do you much good as Stalkers could receive changes that make them better/worse just like Warriors and Engineers could.

 

As such, if you want to tank, I advocate trying to get a feel for playstyles for each class and pick based on that. Class power has always fluctuated in MMOs from patch to patch.


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#20 LlamaButtons

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 09:34 PM

Stalker's can be amazing at tanking. Gear for sure really does matter when going for that path the higher up you go I felt though. I usually tried to keep two sets of gear on me, one for leveling/pvp and one for purely jumping in as a tank. 





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