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Ideas: Short Term ways to improve Classes

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#1 CRB_Meerkat

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 08:46 AM

Hey Everybody,

 

This is the first Ideas post and if it's not perfect, we'll work on making it better next time.

 

Rules: 

  • Be Respectful to each other, we all have differing opinions. 
  • There is no need to argue. Please list the issues that are important to you and your 
  • Top 5 only; Keep it simple for each point, "This is the area that needs work and this is why that area is important to address" (This is not for creating massive posts, walls of text, or links to other massive postings)
  • We don't need solutions to the problem just yet. So don't worry about that right now, we'll have an Agenda post where I may suggest ways to go about it or just ask outright for ideas on a good path.

 

What can be improved for individual classes?

What can be improved for class interaction in groups?

Are their particular areas that should be addressed within the roles?

 

This thread will run through the weekend. We will have an Agenda post next week with the ideas that we will try to tackle in the short term.

 

 

Note: If you have suggestions for the format or a way to convey things in the future, please feel free to put it at the bottom of your post.

 

 

New Format from suggestions later in the thread: 

 

CLASS:[Class name or Blank(if not class specific)]
ROLE:[DPS, TANK, HEALER, or BLANK(if it is not role specific)]
 
1. [Category]: [1-4 sentences]
2. [Category]: [1-4 sentences]
3. [Category]: [1-4 sentences]
4. [Category]: [1-4 sentences]
5. [Category]: [1-4 sentences]
 
More Info:
1. [Greater detailed description of the corresponding numeric issue listed above]
2. [Greater detailed description of the corresponding numeric issue listed above]
3. [Greater detailed description of the corresponding numeric issue listed above]
4. [Greater detailed description of the corresponding numeric issue listed above]
5. [Greater detailed description of the corresponding numeric issue listed above]

 

 

**Category can be Bug, Balance, Feel, or Blank if you aren't sure.


Edited by CRB_Meerkat, 14 April 2016 - 04:24 PM.

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#2 Foul Wind

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 08:57 AM

DPEsper

 

1. please take a look at the esper dps class rune sets.  if buffing espers is not in the cards, a slight one can come from re-doing these awful sets.  in comparison to other classes these fall way short.  

 

2. I would also argue to change how our cc break works.  as it stands now it becomes a liability rather than a skill to use.  there are several instances where using a cc break will kill us, no other classes have this worry.  simply take out the movement from the ability.  

 

3. if the melee build is really going to be here to stay as top dps build, please allow it to utilize more than one utility skill without gimping the build.  or change the darn ds class set, and you can ignore the melee build altogether.


Edited by Foul Wind, 14 April 2016 - 03:22 PM.

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#3 Technopheliac

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:00 AM

I would like to bring up the following for Engineer as short and sweet as possible:

 

1. A change to Bolt Caster to hit more than 1 target. 

2. A less focus on dashing for the class. Dashing should be used for survival not for a DPS rotation.

3. Make Pulse Blast usable.

4. Lower some GCDs to make the class more seamless.

5. Energy Auger is a nice movement ability, can we lower its CD though?


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#4 ViciousDreams

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:18 AM

https://forums.wilds...ted-to-meerkat/

 

If you want to take care of classes, you'll have to read walls of text of people who actually know what they're talking about. :)


Edited by ViciousDreams, 14 April 2016 - 11:26 AM.

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#5 Bacon_21

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:25 AM

I would like to bring up the following for Engineer as short and sweet as possible:

 

1. A change to Bolt Caster to hit more than 1 target. 

2. A less focus on dashing for the class. Dashing should be used for survival not for a DPS rotation.

3. Make Pulse Blast usable.

4. Lower some GCDs to make the class more seamless.

5. Energy Auger is a nice movement ability, can we lower its CD though?

 

For #2 there is a TA build out there and takes out the need to roll, you already have that option.


Edited by Bacon_21, 14 April 2016 - 09:26 AM.


#6 Gamer Phix

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:44 AM

1. Make Esper's Psyblade float around them in combat

2. Make Engineer tank style bots more useful

3. Change the dance required for Stalker's Bloodthirst so it's more "viable"

4. Decrease the size of the LAS builder so we don't have to scroll that tiny bit.

5. Increase threat on melee support ranged abilities to make positioning enemies and holding threat less an initial hassle.


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#7 SlyJeff

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:52 AM

1. I would like to see all classes have rotations with no more than 5 abilities, and no less than 4. 6-8 button rotations make the game less interesting, because you end up utilizing the LAS far less. 2 and 3 button rotations end up in the same boat because you can just have "all the things" on your bar, and they generally aren't fun.

 

2. Make powerlink and bloodthirst specs nearly competitive with selfish builds. People hate playing these and have less fun in raids than other people. If people are going to dedicate a few hours to a game, they should be able to have fun doing it.

3. Make it so that spellslingers can see telegraphs after they exit the void- telegraphs that started while they were in the void often do not show after they exit; it's lame to die to an easily avoidable telegraph you don't even see.

4. Stalker DPS should be fun to play without the GA set.

5. All class should have fun specs without full ability points.


Edited by SlyJeff, 14 April 2016 - 09:52 AM.

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#8 Bacon_21

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:24 AM



3. Make it so that spellslingers can see telegraphs after they exit the void- telegraphs that started while they were in the void often do not show after they exit; it's lame to die to an easily avoidable telegraph you don't even see.

 

Hah reminds me of when I used to stay in the void for Mordechai, learned that lesson years ago. (quote broke for some reason o.0)


Edited by Bacon_21, 14 April 2016 - 10:24 AM.


#9 Oozebourne

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:26 AM

Esper:

- Projected Spirit is the worst mobility tool in the game. Slow, huge cooldown, unnecessary heal. Make it quicker, reduce the cooldown, change the heal to something useful. I'd love to see it reworked into a movement speed buff with T4/8 turning it into a group/raid-wide speed buff but that's just me.

- Remove movement from Fade Out. It's often counterproductive. Change it to increased Pacify effect.

- Move IA break from Shockwave to Restraint/Incapacitate. Consider reworking Shockwave T4/8 too. Actually consider reworking all Esper's CC T4/8, aside from T4 Crush I don't recall ever wanting to invest APs in those. Especially since Fixation exists.

- Change T4 Mending Banner to an Absorb or something. And make it targeted again.

  Optionally, consider getting rid of targeted heals altogether and turning them into spammable AoE Absorbs instead.

- Mental Boon needs to do more healing over its duration than Reverie - otherwise it's borderline useless.

- Buff/rework T8 Soothe. It's disgustingly bad.

 

Engineer:

- Give Bolt Caster a 2-target cap.

- Buff/rework Pulse Blast - or Engineer's Volatility management entirely. With Volatility management revolving around dash, PB's damage being nowhere near competitive and tier bonuses being questionable there is no reason to put it on your bar at level 50.

- Energy Auger is used as a utility tool, make it fit more into that. Extra duration per tier, T4/8 bonuses focused on the utility side. Perhaps extra charges, lower cooldown, higher speed buff, that kind of stuff.

- Flak Cannon suffers from the same issues as Pulse Blast. Its T8 is especially bad, what tank in the world needs Armor Pierce on it?

- Give Thresher a threat multiplier, make it a viable tanking sidegrade to Particle Ejector.

- Buff/rework Shock Pulse. Making it instant would be a good start. 

 

Medic:

- Get rid of Buffer (the Shield Mitigation increase on Shield Heal). People should have control over their shield mitigation - higher is not always better.

- Give a huge buff to Power Converter. Making it viable can spawn a whole new kind of medics.

- Buff/rework Crisis Wave. It's simply not good enough.

- Gamma Rays could use some love but... it's kinda okay now anyway. At higher gear levels.

- Make Recharge instant, give it more Focus, rework T4.

 

Spellslinger:

- Dual Fire needs a buff/rework - its cast time is way too high. Its T8 requires a rework as well - Strikethrough is not a stat that needs to be buffed/debuffed.

- Could tone down Clean Coat but it's a greater problem of the Cleanse/Dispel system as a whole. Would love to change those into removing all debuffs on a bigger cooldown but it might understandably cause issues in PvE.

 

Stalker:

- Could use more utility options. They often end up as a one trick pony (though incredibly good at what they do).

- Nano Field hits like a wet noodle even by tank standards.

- Nano Dart's usefulness is highly questionable. Perhaps should get completely reworked.

- Razor Disk should get reworked. It should be a utility tool - or a no-cooldown Suit Power dump. Could be a fun alternative to Frenzy, too. Right now it's a rather heavy raid utility tax if you have no Espers around.

- Clone should get buffed/reworked. Right now it's a situational PvP tool but it could/should be more.

 

Warrior:

- Nerf/rework T8 Ripsaw. It brings way too much value for the investment - strong Snare, strong healing debuff, incredible damage on T8 proc all rolled up in a low cooldown AoE package.

- Expulsion should be a utility/survivability tool. Its value for DPS/threat is highly questionable.

 

There's also a lot of bad T2/3 AMPs that don't see any use but it's not top priority.


Edited by Oozebourne, 14 April 2016 - 02:13 PM.

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#10 Dr VoltronMD

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:29 AM

Medic DPS:

1) Change or remove Surgical's interaction with field probes. Stacking the raid shouldn't be a requirement.

2) Victory Spark needs to go. No medic has ever used it. Maybe get a stacking MultihitSev buff after a multihit or something since we have none....

3) Calm probably shouldn't proc Scalpel! Forceps!

4) Victory spark needs to go.

5) Maybe give Annihilation a .75s GCD. Would smooth out the QC rotation slightly.

6) For the love of Eldan... Victory Spark. GET IT OUT!

Edited by Dr VoltronMD, 14 April 2016 - 10:36 AM.

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#11 Harvey Sanger

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:37 AM

Asking the internet to not argue is like asking kids not to watch adult videos online.

 

You can do it, but they can't, but they won't obey.


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#12 xxviibe

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:40 AM

I would like to bring up the following for Engineer as short and sweet as possible:

 

1. A change to Bolt Caster to hit more than 1 target. 

2. A less focus on dashing for the class. Dashing should be used for survival not for a DPS rotation.

3. Make Pulse Blast usable.

4. Lower some GCDs to make the class more seamless.

5. Energy Auger is a nice movement ability, can we lower its CD though?

They wont lower the cooldown on energy auger because it would be op for pvp



#13 MR.DO

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:07 AM

Medic Support -

 

fix how resource probes set interacts with other medics with resource probes or medics running both protection probes and mending probes, it sucks that a mending probe wont jump to someone who has another type of probe on them

 

also what volt said about field probes, maybe make it a debuff on the boss and you have to drop the field on the boss to give everyone the 6% increase in dmg


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#14 Captainspire

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:17 AM

Mind Burst Icon I know this is a nitpick but could we change it?

RSvHvU1.jpg

 

Something with an eagle or bird in it.  I keep on confusing it for some kind of mind stun or confuse attack or something.

 

Engineers:  

- Would it be bad to have a healing bot or a way to switch between shield and health healing?

 

- Summon 3 bots. Would having three bots be too OP?  It would take a slot, causing you to have one less personal ability so it may balance that way?

 

General:

-Can we link abilities or have a cycle feature?  Limit to 2 or three abilities so when you use one, it automatically channels or activates the next?  Pro, quicker action time, con, causes you to be locked into those 2-3 actions unless stunned or canceled.  Link ability has a cool down time.

 

- Have the say chat be understood between factions without the need of a modification. (That would really really help in cross faction relations...and obliterations.)

 

Oh and fix my arm please.

3hMhlNC.png


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#15 Dainjre

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:28 AM

Esper dps:

1. For the love of science please listen to vicious

2. True sight change to something useful

3. Read what vicious posted.

4. Did I mention vicious made some really good suggestions?

5. Better class rune set bonuses.
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#16 Cengreth

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:34 AM

Class: Engineer

Role: DPS

 

1. Finish Energy Auger. Moja left this ability half baked since the launch of f2p. The ability points or t4 major tier don't make any sense as a utility ability (and so its place in the assault try doesn't makes sense either). The t8 actually does make sense now, but nobody in their right mind would ever take it.

 

2. Make Quick Burst, Arty Bot, and Diminisher Bot actually interact with the engineer rotation. Stalkers have a similar problem with analyze weakness, engis have it x3. While you are at it take a look at the scaling of QB, there is something wrong if it gives you 40 damage per point on a seven second cd.

 

3. Make Bolt Caster hit 2 targets. The thread is for short term ways to improve classes, so making the rest of the classes have single target specs is out. There is no excuse now, make it happen.

 

4. Give an alternative to dodge rolling. This includes a method to bring bio shell for the debuff. This might be out of the scope though, as it probably includes de-spaghetti-ing ™ some of the abilities such as t8 bio shell.

 

5. Provide better alternatives for t4/t8 ability tiers. I believe engineer dps is the only spec that does not take a final t4/t8, but instead spreads the points among minor tiers. Two abilities stand out: T4 VI, which is not useful because multihit cap is already so easily reachable, and T8 Arty Bot which I don't believe needs an explanation.

 

More Info:

None yet, may add some later.

 

Edit: Formatting and consolidation. Trying to follow at least a semblance of CKJester's suggested format.


Edited by Cengreth, 14 April 2016 - 03:43 PM.

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#17 Foul Wind

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:48 AM

Asking the internet to not argue is like asking kids not to watch adult videos online.

 

You can do it, but they can't, but they won't obey.

so far so good though!


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#18 -Vengeance-

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:49 AM

Class: Esper
Role: Healing

 

1. No more click-to-place spells for Esper

2. Undo changes to Banner and Warden

3. Give Espers tools to do PREVENTATIVE healing and not just reactionary healing (absorbs/shields vs. massive health booms)

4. Rework our AMPs - specifically all of T3 Support, and Buildup.

5. Fix Soothe's t8 bonus - the HoT is often just unnecessary overhealing.

 

 

The in-depth listing...

Spoiler

Edited by -Vengeance-, 14 April 2016 - 07:24 PM.


#19 Kinae

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:51 AM

Esper dps:
 
1. For the love of science please listen to vicious
 
2. True sight change to something useful
 
3. Read what vicious posted.
 
4. Did I mention vicious made some really good suggestions?
 
5. Better class rune set bonuses. 

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#20 Abux

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 12:04 PM

Stalker DPS:

 

1. Concussive Kicks still hits only 1 target;

2. Analyze weakness is just there to remove 1 skill from our bar;

3. As of the latest patch Shred is useless;

4. Clone is pretty much same as Analyze Weakness except it has all the downsides of pets;

5. Overall the issue I have is that most assault skills are useless at T0, either they are free and you have to bring them for extra few dps (AW,Clone) or they cost something and they are useless (Ruin, Shred: cost being intended as opportunity cost of the time spent shredding), I think abilities should have something more than base dmg to them at t0 and t4 and t8 should have meaningful bonuses but not something that dictates whether the skill is on your bar or not.


Edited by Abux, 14 April 2016 - 12:05 PM.

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