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DevConnect: Faction Barrier


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#81 ChroniclerC

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 08:47 PM

At current time, it would be a logistical and lore impossibility to drop the faction barrier, at least in the open world.  I'm sorry, but you've just written yourselves into a corner on this one.  However, I think it would be mostly trivial to open up the gates in most instanced content; the only tricky part would be arranging a system to allow for cross-faction pre-made parties (assuming the party system would remain in a similar state as to now).  And really, when most people are asking to drop the faction barrier, they aren't talking about single player open-world PvE anyway, they're talking about making the queues shorter by effectively doubling the population inside of those queues.  That, and Housing, of course.  :P


Likal Coraer: Aurin Esper Explorer  "What's over there, and how badly does it want to kill me?" --- Lien Coraer: Aurin Stalker Scientist  "Stab it 'till it stops moving.  And then a couple more times to be sure."
Rill Doctur: Chua Medic Scientist "Hold still. This only hurt little.  ...  Later, lots." --- Novatek Gamma: Mecari Warrior Explorer  "If he wanted to keep his disgusting organs, he should have stayed behind me."

#82 Olaf the Space Viking

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 08:50 PM

In the open world, I wouldn't want to see a barrier drop, at least for what we have in the game so far.  IMHO, it would fly in the face of the lore as currently written.

 

HOWEVER, I wouldn't be opposed to having new zones (if we get any) be cross-faction, maybe with a sort of 'Enemy Mine' situation.

 

What I really want to see, though, is cross-faction housing plots.  It doesn't have to be anything drastic, maybe just a toggle on the housing options.



#83 Ijio

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 08:59 PM

Hi there!  I know I'm just one voice among many, but I think I can hit RP concerns as well as gameplay concerns!

 

  • What are your thoughts on dropping the faction barrier? And why?

It depends what we mean by the faction barrier.  Lore wise, and RP wise, I think this is a terrible idea.  Most of the universe in Wildstar has been based around the Dominion/Exile conflict, and it would take a major reworking of lore in order to do this.  Plus, I think the Dominion/Exile divide provides opportunities for RP conflict and for more story potential in the Wildstar Universe.

 

However, in terms of gameplay mechanics, such as grouping up, doing dungeons, pvp, and other scenarios, it would be nice to have more access to each other cross faction, such as dropping the language barrier, or allowing players to go to other faction skyplots, neighbor other faction members, or friend them.

  • What are your thoughts on keeping the faction barrier? And why?

See the above.  For Lore and RP, there should be no erasing of faction divides.  There's too much invested in the conflict and it would just seem so out of left field to properly erase faction lines.  For gameplay mechanics, Dominion and Exile players should have more accessibility with each other.  As an RPer I could see this opening up a lot of things, but also as an RPer, erasing faction divides in the storyline will screw with a LOT of people's stories.

  • If you were a developer for a day, what would your vision for what faction barriers be?

Drop faction restrictions for gameplay content: however, give people the option to state they want to queue with "faction members only", or the option to keep their skyplot "faction members only".  Please please please give people that option, at least for the skyplots.  In terms of lore, continue writing cross faction conflict scenarios, and maybe emphasize it a bit more.  

  • How should PvP flags factor into faction barriers, if at all?

Maybe drop it entirely and have anyone capable of killing anyone outside of Illium and Thayd.  However, give the option to also duel opposing faction members without killing them.  



#84 Azuryon88

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:00 PM

I think also people seem to be confusing narrative changes with mechanical changes. No one should be advising of narrative changes, as the story is there, it doesn't change. However by adding mechanical changes it puts more power to the player. By enabling the players having control you instantly add content to the game. As covered in my previous post allowing for mechanical changes of Faction would enable tons of cross faction goodies, and if you want to keep the rivalry between factions, that's not going anywhere narratively yet. In fact I don't think I've seen anyone aside from a few mentions of Entity advising that they should "join forces."

Narrative doesn't change, mechanics do.

This actually helps ENFORCE Narrative if you look at it from a certain perspective. Cross Faction Housing and grouping can lead to housing fights, player made custom maps to PvP in (spectators not flagged for PvP could easily be judges on each team), more advanced RP opportunities (say for example my RP group wants a Draken enemy or an insider turncoat, we can now RP that with actual characters), and AGAIN severely cuts down on the hesitation to roll the other factions and kills queues better.

I get that people like the lore. I do too, but the lore isn't going to just disappear because we let people have more power. The players being given mechanical power not only lets them interpret the narrative how they see fit, but changes it none. GW2 has the Charr and Humans on the same side, doesn't mean they have to forget that the Charr and Humans were enemies at one point and they can still RP them hating each other beyond all reason.

Narrative doesn't change. Mechanics do. Please keep this in mind when you're making posts. I get that the Devs haven't said that yet, but clearly they're not going to rewrite the entire first half of the game folks.


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#85 Doctor Galex

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:04 PM

I WROTE A THING. It was written in a manic rush so YMMV.

 

----------

Contact with Cassus has been difficult and slow for the Dominion, but possible. Transmissions of tactical information, imperial decrees, and Artemis Zin holovids made the long journey through the void of space, and the Emperor could rest in confidence that the Dominion’s grasp over the galaxy was secure.

When the Strain was discovered, there was concern, of course. Glimpses of it reached Cassus via holovid, but the true extent of its nature was heavily downplayed.

…Then transmissions from Cassus stopped completely. The ICI worked to hide this fact from the populace, but rumors soon began to spread anyway when Protostar shipments to the planet began to trickle to a stop (a phenomenon felt equally by the Exiles.).

Then the ships began to appear in orbit. Massive black arkships, decked in the symbols of the Seventh Scion, Chaul. All weapons aimed at the planet’s surface. A single message was broadcast to every datachron on the planet.

“BY ORDER OF THE EMPEROR, THE PLANET NEXUS HAS BEEN DEEMED IRREVOCABLY CONTAMINATED. PREPARE FOR ERADICATION”.

…This, naturally, came as a surprise to Illium

Unbeknownst to even Axis Pheydra, forces had been working on Cassus against the Emperor’s power. Members of House Chaul… the Ghost House, wiped from the history books, had been subtly incorporating themselves into Cassus’s surrogate government, waiting for an opportunity to strike. Information on the Strain (leaked by a rogue member of the Royal Collegium) was their golden opportunity.

Nexus, they claimed, had been abandoned by the Eldan due to this sinful corruption, and now the Emperor and all of the brave citizens that had ventured to the throneworld were irrevocably lost, and a threat to the Dominion’s stability. Soon, the phage would spread across the galaxy and infect all known worlds! …Unless it was destroyed at its source.

House Chaul wept no tears over the loss of Nexus. Cassus was always the real prize, and the destruction of the Emperor, the Church, the Strain, and the Exiles in a single swoop would be worth the collateral damage. The Dominion had unwittingly bared its throat to its enemies, who were poised to strike the lethal blow.

The so called Ghost Legion’s initial assaults were tactical, targeting military installations across Nexus. The Dominion were hit the hardest, unused to defending themselves against the overwhelming force leveraged by their unexpected foes. Salvation, it seemed, would have to come from an unexpected (and loathsome) source… The Exiles.

The Exiles were used to fighting the Dominion, and the difference between Emperor Myrcalus and House Chaul was a moot point to them; Dommies, after all, were dommies. They suffered at the hands of the Ghost Legion’s initial tactical strikes, but their infrastructure was well hidden, their city nigh-impenetrable, and their grit… really gritty. They had pulled through worse, and were confident in their ability to survive this new onslaught.

But not even the Exiles could survive on an exploded planet. Once the Ghost Legion unleashed their full power against the planet, Nexus would be doomed.

It was the Caretaker that brought the two sides together. The Eldan Construct had long been working behind the scenes with members of both factions, in the hopes of leveraging their combined forces against the Strain. Much to his frustration, however, the organics were much too angry and stupid to set aside their differences.

…The threat of total planetary annihilation was too much to ignore, however. Not only would doing so completely destroy him and all of the research he was designed to protect, but it would also inevitably fail to kill the Genesis Prime, unleashing it on an unsuspecting universe with no way of stopping it. This would be, in short, an unacceptable outcome. Despite their deep rooted hatred of one another, the two factions were inclined to agree.

It was a combined force that drove back the Ghost Legion; Exile Ingenuity, Dominion Might, and a smattering of Eldan Planetary Defense systems. In the end though, Nexus was saved.

Victory was bittersweet, however… both the Exiles and the Dominion were severely weakened, the False Emperor remained in control of Cassus, and his forces soon began a ground campaign against the planet. Illium was cut off from the larger Dominion power structure, and its citizens found themselves in the curious position of being… Exiled.

Thus began the strangest of alliances. It was never exactly friendly (the hostilities went too deep for that), and was constantly under threat from forces both internal and external… but it was the only chance at survival Nexus had.


Edited by Doctor Galex, 17 March 2016 - 07:21 PM.

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#86 SnowFox102

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:02 PM

I'll probably say more later, but for now I'll say this: Dropping the faction barrier as far as content is concerned is a wonderful idea that I wholeheartedly support. We should be able to queue for stuff and do raids with our buddies no matter which characters we're playing.

 

To go into just a bit more detail, I'll point out that I'm an RPer and lore fanatic, and have been for over two years. I know the lore, and know that the factions will not really get along 100%. However, they already are cooperating. In the progression of leveling, you get to see the problems each side has with the other, but you also see a lot of putting that aside for greater reasons. By the time you get to Blighthaven they've pretty much given up on actually fighting in favor of paying attention to bigger threats. I can easily see them declaring an official cease fire for the greater good. Even if they can kill the Entity, the next Big Bad (you know there'll be one) will just make the cease fire continue.

 

In short, suddenly going "Oh let's stop fighting, hold hands and sing songs!" would be absurd, but an uneasy truce? I'm all over that. The lore devs are talented folk who can make it work without retcons or cop-outs.

 

I'll have to talk about the technical side of things like PvP later.


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#87 KurganNazzir

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:10 PM

I don't particularly care if faction barriers are removed or not other than I want to be able to mail stuff to my own alts no matter their faction. Being able to mail stuff to myself is extremely handy and can even encourage me to play more because I know I can always send myself anything I might be in need of.


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#88 sodamousse

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:16 PM

Lore wise I like the factions divide. I enjoy that added tension along everything else Nexus is throwing at us. 

 

BUT I would love to see cross-faction content. Like specific areas or missions where we can join together to take down the "greater evil" so to speak. Dropping the divide for dungeons and raids and such would also please a lot of people.

 

Having a shared chat would help immensely for organizing WB raids as well. And if we can mail things to our other faction alts, that would make me really happy, haha.



#89 Kal Scattergood

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:20 PM

I will admit that I haven't read all of the previous posts, so my apologies if this has been mentioned before.

 

What about a questline that allows individual characters to "defect" to neutral status after hitting max level? Something like a 10-15 quest long chain that ultimately results in being recognized as a Hero of Nexus (instead of Hero of the Exiles or Hero of the Dominion). Characters who complete this questline would earn the ability to chat, visit housing, and queue for instanced content with other characters that have completed this quest. This allows those who prefer the idea of separate factions to continue to remain separate, while allowing those who want to see the barrier fall to make use of the benefits of having a larger pool of players to play with.

 

This is my initial reaction, and I'm positive I haven't thought of everything, nor do I understand how the back end programming would work or what the total impact would be.


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#90 Ceybal

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:24 PM

I think the faction barrier needs to go, with a few caveats.

 

Artificially dividing the playerbase of a game is a very outdated idea, and has not performed well since the early days of WoW. Even then there were issues with uneven server and faction populations as a result of compounding effects of people moving back and forth, often stacking factions that either had an already-strong playerbase or performance in PVP.

 

Wildstar would benefit greatly from removing the faction barrier, at least in terms of letting both Dominion and Exile characters visit each others' housing plots, form parties and raid groups with one another, and form mixed teams in PVP. All of this can be implemented without having to change the Thayd/Illium capital city system, or altering quest chains or NPC hostilities.

 

That said, if the faction barrier were to drop GLOBALLY (as in, no more world pvp, no more hostile NPCs from the opposing faction, players could use facilities in Illium and Thayd with equal ease and effectiveness, that sort of thing) there would have to be a MASSIVE undertaking in terms of story justification. And dont' get me wrong, while I would play the HELL out of that patch, it is an insane amount of work to be done.

 

So yes, mechanically, drop the faction barrier yesterday. Let us visit each other's plots, form parties and groups with each other, put us in the same queue pool. Let those of us who RP figure out on our own what that means to our own individual stories. I'd love to see groups who get along OOC but are separated by the faction divide work out their own truces and armistices and cease-fires. But don't drop factions in terms of the game world at large without doing what needs to be done to justify it from a story perspective.


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#91 Twinflame

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:26 PM

  • What are your thoughts on dropping the faction barrier? And why?

Drop the faction barrier completely, as soon as possible. I'll resist the urge to get into the lore more than necessary, but essentially, the plot of the faction conflict has always felt forced and uninteresting. In-lore it doesn't make any sense for the Dominion and Exiles to still be in conflict, and if they just stopped fighting in the next patch, it would be the most believable thing that's happened in a while.

 

Fromt he standpoint fo gameplay, the faction barrier has been a bane on my enjoyment of this game for a long time. I PvE, PvP and roleplay, and there is not a single one of those kinds of gameplay that would not benefit from a larger coherent population and the ability to reach across the faction barrier. I'm sure it's already been enumerated at length by other posters, so suffice it to say that everything I enjoy doing would be better without a faction barrier getting in the way all the time.

  • What are your thoughts on keeping the faction barrier? And why?

Do not under any circumstances consider keeping the faction barrier as it is now. Please reduce the faction barrier to the bare minimum. All it is doing now is dividing the player base unevenly and needlessly.

  • If you were a developer for a day, what would your vision for what faction barriers be?

Minimal. Players would pick a faction at the beginning, ahve the same starting zones, have their capitals, have their separate questing paths (which I know, it's already been pointed out, are not notably different anyway), btu that's essentially it. Going forward, factions would have the same quest hubs and work together to achieve objectives. Players from different factions could chat, party, join the same circles, the same guilds, the same raids... do essentially everything, as though factions had never been.

 

I guess the only issue would be what to do with open world PvP.

  • How should PvP flags factor into faction barriers, if at all?

This is a difficult question. It's tempting to just say that you should admit that open world PvP is never going to work for this game and focus your PvP energies on instanced PvP. If you want to keep open-world PvP, it doesn't ahve to change that much. Removing the faction barrier might cause faction populations to equalize a bit (I know if I could main a Draken and still run with my Exile raid group, I'd do it), so the open world would still be dangerous. You might end up with people in the same guild or event he same party PvPing in the quest zones, but if that's how they want to roll, let them roll that way. Play how you want, right? A more far-fetched idea would be to alter PvP to revolve around guilds or rep factions at endgame, but that would be a huge restructuring challenge and likely involve a rough transition period. Putting on my dev-for-a-day hat again, I'd take out open-world PvP except for some designated free-for-all or party and/or guild centric PvP zones, and maybe revisit the idea of open world PvP under a brand new system a year or two down the line. PvP is a massive long-term problem that might just have to be moved into instances for now.


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#92 Walrin

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:36 PM

Also - If you've been reading this thread and not contributing, please do! This is our chance to hopefully tear down this wall, we need all of you posting in here to do what we can!

OK then, I will add my 2 copper pieces... :P

 

Brand new player here, just started a few days ago. I'm strongly in favor of dropping the faction barrier. I play MMOs to run dungeons and (schedule and population permitting) raids, so having the full player population available for guilds, circles, and actually running said instances once a group is organized is the ideal situation. Since I play at lower population times, dropping the faction barrier very likely will be decisive in whether or not I'll be able to run instances once I have a character at level cap.

 

My interest in PVP is precisely zero so I have no comment on that side of the issue as long as PVP is *always* consensual (so some form of flag probably remains necessary).

 

I gather from this thread that even mail is currently blocked by the faction barrier, which is not something I've seen in other games. That's a bit irritating - I'd hoped to send crafting mats to my second character once I create it. Apparently not though.

 

The other effect of a faction barrier removal that would be relevant to me is that it would reduce the number of characters I'll need to create and level. Status quo, I'd want four, one each with tank and healer options on each faction (to what extent I'd use either "support" role is unclear, but I'd want to have them available if needed). With no faction barrier, in principle I could get by with just two, though realistically I'd do three. My natural classes are warrior and stalker, so I'd still need to pick one of the healer-capable options in addition. :) From Carbine's perspective this could perhaps be seen as a reason *not* to drop the barrier, to keep people busy bringing up alts on both factions. Doesn't seem like a strong counter-argument to me though.

 

I'd suggest pretty much a straight copy of Rift's approach to dropping the faction barrier, as others have noted above. Common enemy, new zones, an endgame main city hub common to both factions, there you go. And Rift still has PVP though I couldn't tell you where it happens or what the in-character motivations (if any) are supposed to be these days (haven't played in about a year, and it's not an MMO I ever took terribly seriously - just citing it as an example since it's the only other MMO I've played that had factions). But clearly dropping faction barriers doesn't prevent PVP for those who like it.



#93 Picnic Deity

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:43 PM

Technical mechanics and the game world itself are two concepts of the faction barrier that need to be considered. It is how these two concepts interact that result, as implemented by the developers, in the circumstances we find ourselves in. I can see changes being made to the former for the greater good of the game, but only in select instanced content where the faction divide makes weaker sense to exist. Otherwise, for the experience and the integrity of WildStar, faction barriers must exist. There must be division, war, and conflicting goals on technical and story levels between the factions and their players. I encourage the developers to make changes for the convenience of the players, and no more. The world and the warring faction dynamic should be preserved for a better game.

 

- Drop:

 

Housing. Even lore-wise, there is little argument against allowing Exiles and Dominion to visit eachother's skyplots (would faction leaders even have jurisdiction over Protostar?). It would be an optional opt-in for the plot owner, and in the best case, they would be able to allow or even force PvP flagging. This would open massive doors for roleplayers, and let everyone else have fun as they see it. The housing community is one that has no reason to be split.

 

Expeditions, adventures, and dungeons. There is no seizure of resources, wrest for control, or grand contest between the Exiles and Dominion when it comes to these. I assume that the main reason that people of different factions can't team up is just for that fact, but it can be acceptably overlooked since dungeons are about the challenge and the performance of your party members, not their race. The only negative impact I can imagine is the destruction of community that occurs when, in other games, servers are interconnected in such a way, but that won't apply to WildStar. It won't be too long before we get to know our friends (enemies) on the other side and establish nuanced relationships. A strong argument for crossfaction queuing is the fact that in battlegrounds, members of the same faction can be pitted together. Murdering your brethren is more extreme than working with the enemy to stop the Osun from forging exanite.

 

Language. It pains me to say to get rid of something so cool, but everyone uses addons to bypass it anyway, so the mystery and tension is gone. Besides, I personally have not found any evidence that Cassians and Humans speak different languages. Doesn't "Galactic Common" exist as well? In fact, there are many examples of Exiles and Dominion NPCs talking (smack) with eachother out in the world, so I don't understand why we wouldn't be able to understand the other as player characters. What would be neat is if members had an option to speak in Common as well as their faction language, but surely there would be an addon developed to decipher it anyway. Oh well. At least we would still see those special characters as expletive censors.

 

- Keep:

 

Everything else. Don't fix what isn't broken, and don't make the assumption that allowing people to go where they please with whomever will fix problems without introducing more pernicious, intangible ones.

 

The idea of crossfaction circles is suspicious. What purpose would they serve? Worldboss communication comes to mind, but I see people working together easily enough as it is, and has people talk with eachother out in the world. Allowing a circle to include Exile and Dominion characters may encourage unsavoury manipulation of the game. Then again, if something needs to be discussed between two parties, they'll do it outside of the game.

 

Crossfaction guilds are infeasible, and again, are of dubious intent. Big changes would have to be made in order to facilitate easy congregation and item storage & transportation, which are integral features of a guild. The topic of guilds brings us to raiding, which is usually the primary goal and purpose of a PvE guild aside from having an identity and a forum on which to speak. By my own logic, yes, crossfaction raiding would not be a disaster, but the subject of crossfaction raid queuing has arisen too. My response to that is: Absolutely not. The system of guilds and hiring people from lfg channels works well enough, and engages the community in a healthy, classic way for an MMORPG. Many people much more intelligent than I have expounded upon why LFR is terrible, but crossfaction LFR is something else entirely that should be avoided for at least a very long time.

 

- PvP Flags

 

The recent changes made to this were brilliant and very well executed! I can't come up with a way to improve it in its current state.

 

In a perfect world, I would argue for stricter and more engaging divisions and conflicts, but with those elements, prosperity requires a massive population. It's a shame we find ourselves in the situation that we are, in that regard, but it is even more reason to be very careful about making deconstructions.


Edited by Shash, 16 March 2016 - 10:03 PM.


#94 Scarling

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:51 PM

I'm rather surprised that instead of working on ways to improve faction balance (ie bolster Dominion), this discussion is occurring. The ones who are most vocal on wanting this to happen are those that roleplay, want to share between alts of both factions (that can be solved other ways) or have a guild on each side. That's personal preference; the game was designed initially to have these factions and conflicts in place. I feel that the lore would be shot to holy hell by it, and I'm a casual purveyor of the lore as it is. We already somewhat destroyed faction solidarity by having same faction battlegrounds, and what that does is promote the dominant faction to continue being the dominant faction because they actually get matches going when one waits forever. Instead of a knee-jerk reaction, fix the underlying problem: You promote the Exiles way too much, and have made the Dominion too rigid for the casual consumer to want to touch. Not to mention, Aurin are a disease but are a "pretty" race; there's a reason my characters are Cassian or Mechari: costumes look terrible on some races and armor classes.

 

I don't want to queue dungeons with them, I want to kill them. A lot of members of my guild are Exile transplants, or play both equally for PVP and friendship. I agree with dropping the alien language, perhaps just changing its color to faction colors would be best. Everyone already finds ways around it anyways. If you drop the faction barrier, there'd be no point to capital cities and as much as a trash pit as Thayd is, I bet a lot would prefer it because it has more character. Use the feedback from upteen threads to find another solution to maintain population/faction balance.


Edited by Scarling, 16 March 2016 - 09:51 PM.

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#95 dinwitt

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:58 PM

To start off with, a lot of people here are saying that we can't remove the faction barriers because of Lore.  Well I know Lore Walker, he's the GM of The Flying Pandas.  And he's all for it, so stop trying to use him as a scapegoat.

 

  • What are your thoughts on dropping the faction barrier? And why?

 

It needs to be dropped for instanced content.  A few people have dismissed this as just Dominion scum wanting faster queues, but the bigger issue is long term raiding guilds are struggling to recruit like never before.  Hardmentors is difficult enough to learn, and doing it undermanned because you haven't found a new medic dps in months of looking is just burning people out faster.  Removing the faction barrier on instanced content won't just decrease queue times, it will allow some of the most dedicated guilds in the game to continue operating.

 

Most importantly, remove the faction barrier on that sweet, sweet Bulldog hoverboard.  Because I need it, and it has pained me that I can't get it on my main.

 

  • What are your thoughts on keeping the faction barrier? And why?

 

Some systems, like open world pvp, depend on a meaningful player division to work.  I think there are ways to keep factions where they are needed and remove them where they are a hindrance, but it will take some design work.  Another area where factional divide is probably important is housing.  Not for any in game reasons, but because I don't know if the housing server can handle combat on a massive scale.  If you can visit cross faction you can do so pvp flagged, and suddenly the plot that lags when one person is trying to parse has a hundred or so people trying to blow each other up.  And a certain warrior I know would have everyone doing it outside the housing bounding boxes.  That's a recipe for disaster.  Ideally, the housing server can be beefed up to the point that it can handle these occurrences, but for the stability of our housing plots it shouldn't be enabled until that happens.

 

  • If you were a developer for a day, what would your vision for what faction barriers be?

 

If I was a developer for just one day, I probably wouldn't even have my workstation set up or login credentials to the various systems created, let alone affect any real change.  Well, if I made it the focus of my day, to the point of some social engineering to get in to the system, then I could probably delete Aurin for good.  And I think we would all be better for it.

 

Seriously, I would remove faction barriers in all PvE content.  Cross faction queueing and grouping and mailing and housing for everyone.  I would keep it in pvp, especially open world, and social systems, like circles and guilds and some chat channels, though there would be no need to obfuscate messages from the other faction.  And to support the pvp and social faction divide there would be a faction betrayal system, probably based on faction rep.  So your Granok can engage in nefarious deeds (i.e. more nefarious than usual) to lose Exile rep until he is hostile with them, at which point he can start enlightening himself in the ways of properly living to gain rep with the Dominion.  When the rep system shows the Dominion as green to him he can start interacting socially (join circles and guilds and such) with them.  Quests and such to support it all could be added, or just appropriate nemesis regions (one full of Aurin to kill and lose rep, another full of Aurin to kill and gain rep).  And in a perfect world, people could choose to remain outside of the two factions.  Maybe get in good with Protostar, or become an honorary Lopp.

 

I know it doesn't need to be said, but I want to make it clear.  None of the above applies for Aurin.  They made their bed, so they have to sleep in it, like the filthy hippies they are.

 

  • How should PvP flags factor into faction barriers, if at all?

 

This is the real kicker for completely removing faction barriers.  Without some convenient lines drawn, open world PvP becomes free for all.  With faction based open world PvP and without social restrictions on factions, you are potentially hostile with fellow guild and circle members.  Removing faction restrictions on social systems as well as group systems is probably the easiest option, but you'll also need to remove, or reinvent, open world pvp.  But if you don't remove the barrier in social systems, then you need some mechanism for switching factions or you lose a lot of the benefit of removing the barrier everywhere else.

 

but the lore based pve content wouldnt work i dont think.

 

You are the chosen one of Drusera, the god that the Eldan created.  Who in the factions is going to tell you what you can or cannot do?  If you thought that having a Mechari and a Granok along with you was necessary to complete the task that is going to save the universe then it was necessary and they can take their racism elsewhere.  Because thats what this hard, race based faction divide really is, racism.

 

The fact that the other 19 people in your raid group are also Drusera's chosen one is what you get with special snowflake stories in MMOs.  You know that you're the real one, as do all of your versions of your faction leaders, and that's what matters for lore.

 

I, for one, would probably quit Wildstar if my guild asked me to reroll my BiS (except for proper 120 healing pistols), rune-minmaxed main character, not to mention my other raid geared alts, to Exile side just to keep raiding.

 

FTFY.  You're welcome.

 

 

My guess is that the factions are sitting at 60% Exile, 40% Dominion scum.  Because I don't think the imbalance is a big issue.. the 'main' argument I see for removing the faction barrier ("faster queues") doesn't justify dropping the barrier, in my opinion.

 

We are the #1percent #DominionQueuesMatter

 

PvE - Keeping the faction barrier presents the opportunity to tell more than one story..which also covers another frequent request of players - Alt friendliness, and reasons to play alts.  If there was a unique Dominion story added (and, we all know that most of the zones across Nexus have the same basic story between the two factions), I'd be inclined to play a Dominion alt.  Even if the content comes in an expansion as an escalation of the conflict between the noble Exiles and the Dominion scum...maybe escalating conflict over who gets to control whatever the Caretaker is looking for in Arcterra??

 

I don't think anyone (except for the occasional strawman) is suggesting the story and questing is redone to remove either the Exiles or the Dominion.  That would be an enormous amount of work, compared to just removing restrictions on grouping with/chatting with/mailing with toons in the other faction.  Most people would be happy if there were still Exiles and Dominion, occasionally at each others throats as the story demands, but able to coexist in groups of all sizes.


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#96 DevilAnn

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:59 PM

At work atm so I can’t say much on this, but I will keep it short:

  • I’d love to see the faction barrier drop on GOOD lore reason, because factions conflict is a great part of WildStar universe. I love my children from both sides, so I want a good lore reason for some heavy faction related ones.
  • I can understand some people’s choice of “Don’t drop the barrier”, but for the game’s future and population problem between factions, there is a fair way, Cross-factions for contents like dungeons and housing (maybe with open cross-factions options in settings because each plot’s purpose is different.)

So far that all I can say.



#97 barcy

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:15 PM

Pls no.

 

My argument is to do the exact opposite: Make the faction barrier (and faction conflict) much more apparent. Right now there's no feeling of danger from any opposing-faction NPCs, and there's not a feeling of conflict between sides in any zone (Especially the Defile and Blighthaven. I mean... they're right there...) There's actually a quest to go murder injured Dominion (Exile PoV) soldiers in the Defile as well as Dominion scientists and nobody bats an eye. Their base isn't like "Hey, we should do something about youse guys." and instead they just kinda sit there and take it.

 

One idea I had was to turn the max-level daily zones (Defile, Blighthaven, Northern Wastes, Crimson Badlands) into daily zones with an added PvPvE component to it. For example, add in certain control points around the map (a la Hellfire Peninsula in WoW, or the Silithus dust collection in WoW, or even just like Daggerstone Pass) and fight for control of those points. Add reputation gains for completing control (alternative to dailies) or add additional questgivers at each hub that your faction controls so that you can power through your rep with those factions faster. Also, you could add enemy faction NPC waves that try to regain control of nodes that have been in control by the opposing faction for too long so even if it's not peak time there is still action happening at each node. Then you could add in tokens for participation that can be turned in for more advanced NPCs or bigger waves of NPCs like in a MOBA.

 

That's just one idea.


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#98 Olivar

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:12 PM

So first of all, these topics should have been done way, way, way earlier. I think by starting discussions like this, you as carbine have a better understanding of what your community and player Base wants, as well as having a means to get people more involved with the game and the forums.

Now onto the topic at hand.
Should the faction barrier be liften? That depends entirely on what you understand under the faction barrier.
If you are referring to the language barrier, then yes. Please allow us to at least talk with each other. From a lore point of view it does not make any sense that we cannot talk with each other, especially since the human exiles are lost cassini. It also helps the community in solving ingame problems when they can talk with each other.

Now onto the idea of dropping the barrier further, I personally would settle for keeping the barrier as is, but allow mixed groups when using the dungeon finder. This will solve the queue and population problem at least for the pve faction.
I however do not want to see cross faction guilds or circles. I stand by my point that I really do not want to be tossed together with the exile faction.
Why for instances then? We need it really.

So using the dungeon finder it would search server wide, cross faction, and remove all pvp flags and language barriers while inside the instance and instance group. As soon as you leave the group you are reverted to the state before you entered the group.
People cannot make such groups themselves. Only the dungeon finder can do this.
The same can be applied to raids, battlegrounds and arena's.

If you use the dungeon finder, you can be paired up with whatever.

Arena teams would be the exception to this configuration in that they can be formed cross-faction.

It's an arena duel, factions are irrelevant there.

 

Now onto housing, I'd like to see the faction barrier lifted there.

But in such a way that we can visit cross-faction housing plots.

There's no PvP on the housing plots.

Important feature:  Please allow people to be instantly kicked from your housing plot. Or allow something like a black list to prevent people from entering.


Edited by Olivar, 17 March 2016 - 12:22 AM.

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#99 Schwarzwaldo

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:19 PM

Here's how I would do it:

 

Defections.

 

Have a quest chain where you can defect onto the other side. You'd have to gain back reputation on the other side with a respective prison faction before you have full mobility on the side you are defecting to. It might take several days to fully defect. As you gain reputation, you would be able to access that side's zones and quests, but if your reputation is low, you'd have to be "escorted" (triggered NPCs that would escort you) throughout zones or be repelled by that zone's guard. I would also add thematic events that would always and quests that would always be possible against defected players, like a surveillance op where you have to attach cloaked surveillance probes to any number of players. You could join parties with the enemy faction, but any enemy player would conserve their respective prison faction reputation that might prevent them from participating in the same content as all the rest (and even in party, they could still be PvP'd if the PvP flags are set without them having defected yet). You could only progress so much in the enemy faction before you lost your own faction's prison reputation, essentially making you a defected player.

 

It could be fun, and it would encourage anyone from freely exploring each faction in intervals. The main problem it would have is it could exacerbate faction migrations where people feel inclined to migrate to another faction because they might, say, feel the other faction is better at PvP. They might more freely switch over to the other faction for that activity, creating periods of unbalanced population for matches. The best way to address this is to have the previous defection mechanics only apply to world PvE content, possibly but not necessarily to instanced group content, but not to PvP content and any other faction population sensitive content.



#100 Kelzam Duskthorn

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:34 PM

I've been on hiatus since January, but as a veteran who stuck it out from launch to F2P I feel it pertinent to throw in my two cents. I'm not here to write walls of text, because I think the issue is a lot less contrived than many are making it to be.

 

The faction barrier only need be put to rest for instanced content. The open tagging system in world events already allows both factions to complete objectives in the open world, which is the only place where it could be perceived to be an issue. But it's not.

 

Concerns about what dropping faction barriers means for the story are a moot point in this case, because both sides can still develop their own stories simultaneously in new content zones. The major lore instances can still be separate as they have been for OmniCore-1 and Vault of the Archon.

 

Literally the only reason to drop the faction barrier is for Housing, Expeditions*, Adventures, Dungeons and ideally Raids. These are the areas where the players get to play the game, rather than sit AFK in a city or on their housing plot.

 

An argument could be made for instanced PvP that cross factions don't make sense. I haven't been on in a while to see how PvP queue times are, but actually getting to PvP is the aspect of the game that matters. We already gave up a lot of PvP faction identity when asking for faction-on-faction matches (that is, Exile vs Exile or Dominion vs Dominion). Is taking it a final step further that big of a deal? Probably bigger than other areas where the faction barrier comes into question. If queues are fine, instanced PvP is the only area I think it needs be left alone for the sake of what PvP is and giving players a sense of PvP identity and what they're fighting for. Avatus or Ohmna or The Redmoon are a common enemy; PvP takes all that out of the equation.


Edited by Kelzam Duskthorn, 16 March 2016 - 10:35 PM.

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