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Drop 3, when ?


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#61 SlyJeff

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 06:20 AM

Not to panic or anything...WoD is in 9 days. Starting to get a little worried here :(

 

I think the timing of Drop 3 won't matter either way in regards to the effect WoD will have on WS.

 

Might not be a great day for pugging, though.


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#62 haisenkalle

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 06:21 AM

Do you have any idea how long it would take to "split the bug fixes from the content" and test it? It would take longer to do that than to just test and release the content they are already in the process of finalizing.

 

 

Oh you mean... it is impossible to test bug fixes in old content? :D I see. New perspective here. How do current and present bugs relate to new unpublished content? In addition, bug fix team = content team? Or is the bundle team saying... "oh you only have some fixes... nope we wait until some new content is up.. because [reasons]!" The only thing I am reading is, it takes more time.... If this is the really the case, a lot of people should be fired and other people should create a way better system to be able to push fixes and push content when its ready.


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#63 dinwitt

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:02 AM

Was there a thread posted to collect questions for today's livestream?  If we operate under the assumption that there will be a Nexus Report instead of a Zero to Fifty the week of the patch, and that there won't necessarily be a q&a section during the new Nexus Report, then the lack of a thread to collect questions implies we are getting a Nexus Report today and the patch is this week or next week.  Also, Half Life 3 is confirmed and Metroid Dread has a release date.


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#64 dinwitt

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:11 AM

http://www.wildstar-.../genesis-prime/


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#65 Typrop

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:13 AM


 

It's a trap!


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#66 Artereis

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:14 AM

It feels more and more like the Entity and Drusera share the same body.



#67 Typrop

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:17 AM

It feels more and more like the Entity and Drusera share the same body.

I wouldn't doubt it considering how batcupcake crazy Eldan turn out to be more you play...

I swear the more I played the more I was like "what the hell is wrong with you people..."


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#68 Shendorion

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:22 AM

I swear the more I played the more I was like "what the hell is wrong with you people..."

 

 

Hubris and too much free time.


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#69 Nemura

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:43 AM

Thanks for the feedback guys xD.

 

 

 

Fair enough. It just feel that we will never get that patch. it's taking forever.........

 

I wonder how much laying off 60 employees helped.


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#70 SlyJeff

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:00 AM

Oh you mean... it is impossible to test bug fixes in old content? :D I see. New perspective here. How do current and present bugs relate to new unpublished content? In addition, bug fix team = content team? Or is the bundle team saying... "oh you only have some fixes... nope we wait until some new content is up.. because [reasons]!" The only thing I am reading is, it takes more time.... If this is the really the case, a lot of people should be fired and other people should create a way better system to be able to push fixes and push content when its ready.

 

Managing fixes alongside existing and new content is an issue with software everywhere, not just at Carbine. Millions of words have likely been written on the subject of managing defects and patches, and while some systems are better, frankly none make it easy. It ALWAYS takes more time.

 

You ask "How do current and present bugs relate to new unpublished content"? I'll explain it:

 

First, it's important to understand that the application is released as one bundle of code compiled down into machine language. Every piece of functionality has to be written and tested against that release of the code. It's not like you can take pieces of drop 1, add in patch 1.2, some from drop 2, and then whatever the difference is for drop 3. No, you get the entire code, from top to bottom that represents the application. The reason they don't push down the entire app to you every time is that there are tools smart enough to determine just what needs to be updated on the client while leaving everything else the same. But this isn't true for the source code and it isn't true of what QA tests.

 

So generally what you have is something called the "trunk". This represents all of the present source code up to now. From that trunk you will have "branches" that basically represent copies of the trunk taken at a point in time but with changes made. Branches can sometimes be merged back into the trunk so that the changes in the branch are integrated with it. There are various branching strategies and I have no idea what Carbine is using.

 

However, to answer your question think of it this way: when Drop 2 comes out, Carbine creates a branch called "Drop 2". This is a point in time copy of the trunk with all the features they wanted implemented in Drop 2. Now they keep developing. Someone finds a bug and they decide to fix it. That fix will go into the trunk so that it doesn't get reverted whenever Drop 3 comes. But they also decide it's important enough to go into Drop 2 (live). So now they make the change in both places. The closer the two copies are to each other, the easier it is to apply, but the more changes that are made in the Trunk, the more you have conflicts which makes patching live very challenging and time consuming.

 

Now if they determine that they aren't going to waste time doing double work and make the changes to the trunk without patching them into Drop 2 they can go much faster and get to Drop 2 faster. The trunk will have all of the content changes plus all of the bug fixes. If (like has been suggested) you want them to take these bug fixes and apply them to live, a developer has to go back, understand the changes, see how they fit into Drop 2, then apply them there. Then, after they do this (time consuming) process for each of those bugs, the whole new version of Drop 2 has to be deployed to QA and tested. And they can't just test the changes- they have to test the existing features from Drop 2 to make sure nothing was inadvertently broken.

 

Is it impossible? No. Is it time consuming? Very.

 

Now if I had to guess at what happened is that when they cut Drop 2 they had at least one more branch of the code (and probably more). The trunk slated for Drop 3 already had the new content in it and there was probably a feature branch already in existence for Drop 4 that had the rune changes in it. The plan would be to merge the Drop 4 changes back into the trunk after Drop 3 when, but that changed when people screamed (rightfully) about needing the rune changes. So the devs decided to go ahead and merge Drop 4 into Drop 3. Drop 4 was probably depending on a lot of the code base of Drop 3, so to merge it into Drop 2 and make it the new trunk probably would have taken way too much time. Instead, they decided to delay Drop 3 and add the changes for Drop 4 into it.

 

Is this exactly what happened? I don't know. I don't know their specific branching strategy. People still argue over best practices today. However, what IS true is that when you want to patch something into live, deployed code with that fix has to be made in at least two places.  And if you don't patch it into live and you decide to do it later, it takes a lot of work to make it happen.

 

They have Drop 3 in testing. It's mostly ready to go. The absolute quickest way to get what you want is for them to test what they have and deploy it. Anything else will take a lot more time.


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#71 Shendorion

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:08 AM

Was there a thread posted to collect questions for today's livestream?  If we operate under the assumption that there will be a Nexus Report instead of a Zero to Fifty the week of the patch, and that there won't necessarily be a q&a section during the new Nexus Report, then the lack of a thread to collect questions implies we are getting a Nexus Report today and the patch is this week or next week.  Also, Half Life 3 is confirmed and Metroid Dread has a release date.

 

Sadly, the answer is C.) there's no Nexus Report or Zero to Fifty this week. 

 

They called in sick.


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#72 dinwitt

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:13 AM

Sadly, the answer is C.) there's no Nexus Report or Zero to Fifty this week. 

 

They called in sick.

 

Yeah, I saw that.  I think Tony takes some twisted satisfaction in proving me wrong.  That's fair though, because I do the same in trying to read more into their posts (or lack thereof in this case) than is actually there.


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#73 Evade

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:54 AM

Other games, programs, apps, operating systems, etc., usually fix/patch things as they become available. I've played games where everyday when I log in, something new has been fixed.

What would be wrong with just patching the game as fixes become available? Why does it have to be done all at once, in a single huge patch/fix, somewhere in the future?

Carbine seems to only patch when it's an emergency, and everything else gets put off. Why?


It was a bad decision by carbine that will be added to the already huge pile of bad decisions by carbine

#74 Kitpo

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:03 AM

Fix bugs? I bet we don't see another PTR patch before drop 3 hits. So what are they fixing?

Are they going to do what they normally do and throw in a bug fix patch without testing... most likely and medics \ spellslingers will be broke again.

 

If history repeats itself.



#75 Gungan

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:15 AM

Fix bugs? I bet we don't see another PTR patch before drop 3 hits. So what are they fixing?

Are they going to do what they normally do and throw in a bug fix patch without testing... most likely and medics \ spellslingers will be broke again.

 

If history repeats itself.

 

They're fixing the stuff on the PTR right now.  Issues were found. Fixes are required.  Just because it's on the PTR doesn't mean it's ready.



#76 Kitpo

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:19 AM

They're fixing the stuff on the PTR right now.  Issues were found. Fixes are required.  Just because it's on the PTR doesn't mean it's ready.

 

I haven't seen new patch notes for 2 weeks. Unless you mean right now as the PTR is down and patching.



#77 J-Tal

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:50 PM

We should see a new version up on the PTR later today and that means the absolute soonest something can be pushed to Live is the 11th.

 

I'm not saying it's next Tuesday, but I'm also not saying it's not next Tuesday.


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#78 DoctorCorvex

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:51 PM

I'm not saying it's next Tuesday, but I'm also not saying it's not next Tuesday.

 

He is the most interesting dev in the world.


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#79 dinwitt

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:55 PM

I'm not saying it's next Tuesday, but I'm also not saying it's not next Tuesday.

 

 I'm not thanking you for letting us not know, but I'm also not not thanking your for not letting us not know.

 

Also, its official.  I'll be at 100 Eldan Data Fragments before Drop 3.


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#80 Nike Online

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 05:37 PM

I'm not saying it's next Tuesday, but I'm also not saying it's not next Tuesday.

 

I get it. There can be goals, but everything is contingent on intermediate steps not blowing up. Testing is like that.

 

Also, its official.  I'll be at 100 Eldan Data Fragments before Drop 3.

 

I do believe I hear the call of a fellow technologist B).