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Holiday Event removal not a big deal


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#61 Lethality

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:26 AM

You not see how   Donatelli  was acting . I will be shocked to see him still there through the year . You have all these forums people saying the game fine , everything fine , greatest game ever fine , while its dying at a record pace and top level people dropping like flies . Everything must not be fine . But they can correct all the bugs and postpone all holiday events and add 1000 features .But read this closely ......... If they don't introduce a normal parallel entry into end game content . They are done !!! And there was no reason why they didn't have it in the core game . Why on earth would you base your game around just elite players . 2% is 2% no matter how many ways you add it . Tell me why there isn't a lower skill entry point into the content . ..... only reason , we wanted the elite player to feel special . ... Roflmao Fail Fail Fail . Ray Charles could of saw this coming . They deserve the failure that they had . It will be a benchmark on what not to do in future MMO's . Let build a game millions would love ..... wait wait wait , lets wall 98% out of the game ... sounds great .   

 

 

There was already a game with ridiculous accessibility and anti-social features; building another one wasn't needed. They wanted to building something that wasn't available on the market. They did exactly that and WildSTar is the game I want it to be.




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#62 Daas66

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:40 AM

Let me tell you why not having the Halloween an Xmas holiday events is ok for everyone. Donatelli the game Director explained that because there won't be any holiday events that instead they were able to implement a literal TON of new content, bug fixes and a lot of new positive changes in the next drop.

By "next drop" does that mean the already late Drop 3 or the true Next drop, Drop 4?  Let's be truthful, by constantly moving the drop date back it would logically allow for more content to be added to it.


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#63 CRB_Caydiem

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:50 AM

So I want to clear up a few things and talk about how the sausage is made a little.

 

I'm seeing the "12-16 months' worth of content prepared" thing bandied about, and this is actually the result of a statement being repeated enough where the words change enough to change the meaning. Prepared isn't the correct term and was never actually said to my knowledge. The correct term is "in pre-production," which is closer to planned than prepared. Pre-production means the content exists in design documents, concept art, and maybe a prototype or two. It hasn't even begun becoming real content yet. Having a lot of things planned out like this is great, as you can then shift the schedule according to what you see your game needs as things progress on live. Having a fixed schedule that didn't change in reaction to live game information would have been a mistake, and the schedule did shift accordingly.

 

So now let's talk a bit about holidays and why saying "No Winterfest" mid-Autumn isn't as crazy as it sounds.

 

I was working on Shade's Eve in April.

 

I realize that sounds a bit insane, but that isn't out of the ordinary. I've worked on other games where the same was very much true. Unlike most other things in game design, holidays based around real-world times of the year are immutable. You want to harness the energy they bring, and so it's very advantageous to schedule around them, but that means starting things early so you have a buffer.

 

Now, holidays are great, but they're not as important as making sure the live game is working well. We took the time we needed to fix things players were already experiencing -- all of the departments -- and that meant that the schedule changed to account for it. But Halloween and Christmas weren't interested in our bug fixes and didn't change their schedules for us.

 

When it came to Drop 3, Shade's Eve was more or less done, but it still needed a lot of proper, rigorous testing. With limited-time events, it's even more imperative that your content work and work well, because if there's a show-stopping bug that happens, every hour you spend fixing it is an hour players miss of that content for the year. QA time was vital, therefore -- particularly with some new bits of tech we received. But QA had Drop 3 on their plate, and Drop 3 -- full of many bug fixes and content that would be around all year -- was rightly deemed more important for QA to focus on. Would we have liked to get Shade's Eve in? Of course! But with finite resources, we picked giving Drop 3 the most thorough testing it could get, and it was the right call.

 

Winterfest wasn't in the same state Shade's Eve was when we stopped -- it was a rough li'l bit of content at the time. Fun, but rough. Even if we started the train back up now, finishing some part of it, testing it, and getting it out by Christmas would be a tough prospect with everything else cooking. We'd much rather deliver something that's full-featured, fun, and high quality.

 

I've been doing holiday content in this industry a long time, and I really want to show you folks what we cooked up, because I'm very proud of it. I hope you'll enjoy it next year. :)



#64 Hellshiver

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:58 AM

My two cents....

 

Fixing the bugs is GREAT!  However, waiting for a major patch to fix them is not a good idea.  As fixes come out, they should be pushed to the live server.  The weekly downtime would be the best time to do so.  We're bleeding people due to bugs.

 

Pushing them to live would help to find any bugs in the updating software as well.  I assume they have been checking the software for any other bugs since they found the last one that caused the medic 3 patch week.  Even the best miss things though.

 

Edit: @Caydiem:  I agree with your method.  Just commenting on the long delay for bug fixes vs weekly ones.

 

Also need to be able to like Carbine posts.  Forum programers, HO!!!!!


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#65 Vincynt

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:59 AM

Thanks for taking the time to post Caydiem.  Insights and explanations are greatly appreciated.

 

If you're super bummed about the loss of these events then make some of your own!  I can tell you that Ansible will be hosting a guild Halloween event (our housing plot is ALMOST done for it!) and we're already working on a Winterfest plot as well.  I know it's not the same as in game events but sometimes it can be a blast to build your own fun with the tools Carbine has given us  :D


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#66 Typrop

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 07:59 AM

Caydiem, we ha a discussion before and again I'm grateful for you dropping in. Always a pleasure to speak with....BUT

 

 

 

 

*hesitantly raises her mechanical hand like a shakey frightened Chua*...

Any chance of a....Lopp easter inspired holiday next year?


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#67 yasfan

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:11 AM

 

I've been doing holiday content in this industry a long time, and I really want to show you folks what we cooked up, because I'm very proud of it. I hope you'll enjoy it next year. :)

 

Thanks for the update, I do understand the reasoning behind cancelling the holiday content this year, and it's solid reasoning. Not being prone to hysterics, I'm hardly going to come here and angrily threaten to quit over it--but it is the latest in a string of recent disappointments. I hope to enjoy it next year.

 

I also hope that Drop 3 turns out well, given how much development effort has apparently been redirected into it. 


Content-gating does not tie merit to reward when you can get credit for completing the content by being AFK in the same room as someone else who beats the content for you.


#68 _VictoriaRachel

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:27 AM

Winterfest wasn't in the same state Shade's Eve was when we stopped -- it was a rough li'l bit of content at the time. Fun, but rough. Even if we started the train back up now, finishing some part of it, testing it, and getting it out by Christmas would be a tough prospect with everything else cooking. We'd much rather deliver something that's full-featured, fun, and high quality.

 

I've been doing holiday content in this industry a long time, and I really want to show you folks what we cooked up, because I'm very proud of it. I hope you'll enjoy it next year. :)

 

I understand the focus on Drop 3 has been huge. I understand Shade’s Eve being dropped as things got too close. I do not understand why it was felt that is was acceptable to skip Christmas. Drop 3 will have come and gone, the festive period will hit after people have finished the limited content it offers (again yes massive system overhauls and bug fixes galore, but not much actual content). If there is nothing to do people will still leave how many bugs your drop fixes. Holiday festivals add so much to retention, even if they are small scale.

 

I can perfectly understand the ambition to deliver something fun and high quality, these are goals that should not be compromised. However, there needs to be a middle ground when it comes to the goal of everything being full-featured.  Of course people would of course be happier with a full-featured event compared to small scale additions, but they sure are going to be more disappointed getting nothing.

 

Can you give us an idea on when we will see Holiday content? By that I mean are they any Holidays early next year, are we looking at Late March for a Spring Fling or will it be even later than that?


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#69 Solarfox

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:32 AM

Yeah OP would have been if the game had just released a month or 2 ago.


It's been 3... It's not like the game has been out for a year and a half and they're just now getting around to it.

Honestly some peoples idea of just what should be in release of a MMO is pretty out of touch. They seem to remember all that beta time as being live, and not a beta, then get upset when a new game still has bugs.

#70 Kurona

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:37 AM

It's kinda funny they say they stopped working on the holiday stuff so drop 3 would be better. but the holiday stuff might have actually given people a reason to log in and play while waiting for the legendary drop 3.


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#71 Punjoke

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 08:42 AM

So I want to clear up a few things and talk about how the sausage is made a little.

 

I'm seeing the "12-16 months' worth of content prepared" thing bandied about, and this is actually the result of a statement being repeated enough where the words change enough to change the meaning. Prepared isn't the correct term and was never actually said to my knowledge. The correct term is "in pre-production," which is closer to planned than prepared. Pre-production means the content exists in design documents, concept art, and maybe a prototype or two. It hasn't even begun becoming real content yet. Having a lot of things planned out like this is great, as you can then shift the schedule according to what you see your game needs as things progress on live. Having a fixed schedule that didn't change in reaction to live game information would have been a mistake, and the schedule did shift accordingly.

 

Here's the actual article that keeps getting quoted (or misquoted,) for the sake of total clarity.

 

http://www.vg247.com...pre-production/

 

Specifically,

 

 

 

Gaffney: “We’ve actually mapped out and we have pre-production done on the first 16 monthly updates. That sounds mildly insane but we just walked through them as a group the other day. Some are quests that need art but there’s a significant amount of work that’s been put into a year-plus into the future, so that we can make sure we can hit that.

 

The title of the article states that the first 16 months are "in pre-production." Gaffney's direct quote states "we have pre-production done on the first 16 monthly updates."

 

If there are other direct quotes on the issue of these 16 months of content, I'm not aware of them.



#72 Lightwish01

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 09:19 AM

Thanks for the post Caydiem!  I know the forums can sometimes appear doom and gloom- especially if you are a Carbine employee or developer, but you should know that there is a lot of players out here that agree with the logic behind your recent decisions for the Mega Server and Drop 3.  You guys are really late, and for that the scheduler needs a kick in the pants; however, beyond that I believe passing up on 30 day seasonal events to allocate resources into bug fixes, new content and itemization changes in drop 3 is the right call.  The latter definitely should take priority.

 

Even with the seasonal stuff out of the game for the next few holidays, I really think that Carbine at least needs to throw up some Christmas trees and garlands and the like around the capital cities.  I think we can turn an eye on Halloween decorations this time since there is so much going on for you guys right now, but Christmas....get some decorations up in Thayd my good man! 

 

EDIT: Not asking for any content....but maybe just one tree in Thayd or something?  If not whatever ;)


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#73 yasfan

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 09:39 AM

Even with the seasonal stuff out of the game for the next few holidays, I really think that Carbine at least needs to throw up some Christmas trees and garlands and the like around the capital cities.  I think we can turn an eye on Halloween decorations this time since there is so much going on for you guys right now, but Christmas....get some decorations up in Thayd my good man! 

 

... Aren't you the same one who opened this thread, the whole point of which was that losing the holiday events just wasn't a big deal and we should all get over it because Drop 3 is so much more important? Both Halloween AND Christmas events have been cancelled if I've understood it correctly.


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#74 CRB_Caydiem

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:09 AM

Winterfest isn't much about Christmas trees and festive garlands, and the garlands we have for Winterfest would make... less sense without context. Let's just say it's less about holiday cheer and more about consumerism in its purist form. ;)

 

Also, as I've mentioned, the city decoration isn't spawned in, but rather uses the plug/socket system similar to housing, which requires both art time and testing.


Edited by Caydiem, 02 October 2014 - 10:09 AM.


#75 Kavi

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:33 AM

......

 

I appreciate this response. Much explanation, very sensible, wow.

I understand your guys' decision and I'm sorry that those of you who worked really hard on the holidays don't get to show your stuff this year, but there's always next time! I can't wait to see it then, along with whatever other Holidays are in the grand scheme of things ^_^

 

 

....Even with the seasonal stuff out of the game for the next few holidays, I really think that Carbine at least needs to throw up some Christmas trees and garlands and the like around the capital cities.  I think we can turn an eye on Halloween decorations this time since there is so much going on for you guys right now, but Christmas....get some decorations up in Thayd my good man!

 

As for you!

You can always make your own decorations for the holiday! True, that doesn't put them out in the world. As they've said several times, putting out decor worked on a plug/FABkit-like thing, so I don't think they can put random Christmas trees and whatnot in...plus, yeah, Nexus doesn't necessarily celebrate Christmas.

 

That said, it's not stopping me!

(You have no idea how annoying those lights were to put up! Still need to make presents for under it, too...)

Chayla141002163345_zpsfe24e309.png

 

Edit: I found a straight pine tree and am now re-making it!

Edit Edit: New Screenshot of the new tree


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#76 Kriggles44

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:34 AM

It's kinda funny they say they stopped working on the holiday stuff so drop 3 would be better. but the holiday stuff might have actually given people a reason to log in and play while waiting for the legendary drop 3.

 

This ^


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#77 _VictoriaRachel

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:43 AM

That said, it's not stopping me!

(I do wish I had a straight pine tree though! You have no idea how annoying those lights were to put up! Still need to make presents for under it, too...)

 

Oh my goodness I utterly adore it. Don't worry people Christmas will be at Kavi's house!


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#78 Kavi

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:49 AM

Oh my goodness I utterly adore it. Don't worry people Christmas will be at Kavi's house!

 

Haha! All are welcome at Kavi's home for Christmas. It happens to be my favorite Holiday, even if I can't cover my plot in snow yet!


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#79 SystematicOne

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 10:52 AM

Unnaceptable for me unfortunately.  Sorry Wildstar...you will be missed =(


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#80 Lunaria

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 11:27 AM

So I want to clear up a few things and talk about how the sausage is made a little.

 

I'm seeing the "12-16 months' worth of content prepared" thing bandied about, and this is actually the result of a statement being repeated enough where the words change enough to change the meaning. Prepared isn't the correct term and was never actually said to my knowledge. The correct term is "in pre-production," which is closer to planned than prepared. Pre-production means the content exists in design documents, concept art, and maybe a prototype or two. It hasn't even begun becoming real content yet. Having a lot of things planned out like this is great, as you can then shift the schedule according to what you see your game needs as things progress on live. Having a fixed schedule that didn't change in reaction to live game information would have been a mistake, and the schedule did shift accordingly.

 

So now let's talk a bit about holidays and why saying "No Winterfest" mid-Autumn isn't as crazy as it sounds.

 

I was working on Shade's Eve in April.

 

I realize that sounds a bit insane, but that isn't out of the ordinary. I've worked on other games where the same was very much true. Unlike most other things in game design, holidays based around real-world times of the year are immutable. You want to harness the energy they bring, and so it's very advantageous to schedule around them, but that means starting things early so you have a buffer.

 

Now, holidays are great, but they're not as important as making sure the live game is working well. We took the time we needed to fix things players were already experiencing -- all of the departments -- and that meant that the schedule changed to account for it. But Halloween and Christmas weren't interested in our bug fixes and didn't change their schedules for us.

 

When it came to Drop 3, Shade's Eve was more or less done, but it still needed a lot of proper, rigorous testing. With limited-time events, it's even more imperative that your content work and work well, because if there's a show-stopping bug that happens, every hour you spend fixing it is an hour players miss of that content for the year. QA time was vital, therefore -- particularly with some new bits of tech we received. But QA had Drop 3 on their plate, and Drop 3 -- full of many bug fixes and content that would be around all year -- was rightly deemed more important for QA to focus on. Would we have liked to get Shade's Eve in? Of course! But with finite resources, we picked giving Drop 3 the most thorough testing it could get, and it was the right call.

 

Winterfest wasn't in the same state Shade's Eve was when we stopped -- it was a rough li'l bit of content at the time. Fun, but rough. Even if we started the train back up now, finishing some part of it, testing it, and getting it out by Christmas would be a tough prospect with everything else cooking. We'd much rather deliver something that's full-featured, fun, and high quality.

 

I've been doing holiday content in this industry a long time, and I really want to show you folks what we cooked up, because I'm very proud of it. I hope you'll enjoy it next year. :)

It seems like you missed the last livestream when donatelli literally said drops 12/13 were eating up QA time that should have been used for more urgent matters. That is a bit more than just design documents

I understand your current predicament, I really do
but you guys need to understand how far you've been pushing your players. It's getting to a point where everything carbine says seems to just be some fantasy about how they imagine their game should be. Shade's Eve was showcased at a major gaming convention even and got poofed

The way he went on about how most other mmo's just use decorations for holidays. We use some overly complex spawning in new terrain method that requires us to individually test every npc and player interaction. What the hell was wrong with decorations?


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