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its bronze now


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#21 Typrop

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:26 AM

They are planning on doing something about the world boss phase also, but didn't have any details today.

Cool, I wasn't able to watch so I'll keep an eye on that.

 

Oh a doom post.

I don't believe the change was done with top guilds in mind.

I think it was "top guilds", but not just with them in mind. If I had to guess at a reasoning, it'd be for the long-term health of the game and for the playerbase as a whole.

 

 

It is a doom post. Carbine caving on something they said they would not cave on for almost a year is a very damning thing for them. We will see.

 

I don't feel like they have really, the timers if that was the issue just never felt like it was a good "gauge/metric" for skill at all and felt out of place to me personally. It's not like they cut Drokks health in half, or removed a phase from stormtalon, etc...the content itself is still difficult.


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#22 Geaux

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:26 AM

See world of warcraft to see how it pans out.

 

Too many people to manage 40. Reduction to 25 with BC.

 

Not enough people saw raids so they removed attunements.

 

A new larger force of players got to see raids, and people complained that they were too hard.

 

Classes get homogenized, raids become simplified. A second tier of raiding is added so that the more average players can see raids

and the top end can still have challenges.

 

Attempt to make the game harder again in another expansion is met with extreme resistant by the community. Content is nerfed after 1 month of expansion release. LFR is implemented so that no one is left out of raiding.

 

 

 

If the trend goes through like the other games that have taken the same route then this game will offer nothing to a hardcore raider that a game that we have invested 9 years + in does. We will see how it pans out, but caving on something like this so early means the company is in a much worst position then many of us assumed they would be in at this point.

>.> 40 man raiding died because encounter design for that many people, is really really bland  and   repeatedly boils  down  into  split the  raid in parts , or flat ignore it  because it  will not  kill the raid  fast enough to  matter.

 

 letting  more  people see content  , is  just efficient  use  of  content.   Saving a  few  abilities for  the  supper  hardcore gives them all the challenge they  need and   gives the  entire  game  a  massive  content  boost.

 

and  blizzard added new lower tiers of content and  left the  hard stuff hard ( well the  hard stuff that wasn't broken). if you dont  want to have an  easier time i hear there are lots of top end guild that need butts in their  rosters.


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#23 Blezzle

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:26 AM

Sounds like you need to take a chill pill and trust the devs to do the right thing  :)

 

It is not about whether or not they are doing the right thing for the health of there game. It may give the game better appeal overall. It is the fact that they sold the hardcore crowd a year before launch on an entirely different story. One that would not cave to popular demand. Over and over though they keep showing that rewarding bad behavior is getting people what they want. Amps, Character model reductions, class skill and abilities (medics and warriors both recently), and now attunement. Everytime a group of people get together and complain that this game is going to die if they do not make the changes they want immediately they have given in and rewarded the behavior. It is not me just getting upset that they caved on attunement, it is that they have caved again, and the game isn't even 3 months old. Everyone thinks that a game needs to be this, that or the other thing, but when you keep listening to people over and over again you end up with the same game every time. That same game gets left in droves every time it comes out.


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#24 Mahanaxar

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:27 AM

Not nerfing actual encounter difficulty is why this change is ok by me. Heck, as a "compromise" I wouldn't mind if they buffed the bosses a bit. ;)


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#25 Lokdron

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:29 AM

Not nerfing actual encounter difficulty is why this change is ok by me. Heck, as a "compromise" I wouldn't mind if they buffed the bosses a bit. ;)

I hold a similar view they did not nerf the content so I am ok with it let the raids destroy the people who cannot do it then they can look back and see how to improve to beat the encounter. Plus personally I would never pug sword maiden ever.



#26 Typrop

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:29 AM

Not nerfing actual encounter difficulty is why this change is ok by me. Heck, as a "compromise" I wouldn't mind if they buffed the bosses a bit. ;)

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#27 SlyJeff

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:33 AM

I was looking forward to working on silvers. Probably won't get a chance now that not too many people will be interested.

 

Not crazy about the change, but if it helps the long term health of the game, it's the right choice.


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#28 PlasmaJohn

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:35 AM

To the devs, Bravo!


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#29 Geaux

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:35 AM

With unlimited time and unlimited deaths, the only thing needed for bronze is sheer persistence, which is a poor substitute for knowledge and skill. A large portion of my guild has bronzed every dungeon by straight grave zerking the bosses until they got a lucky run that involved the boss bugging out or not using any heavy skills. These are not the people that belong in High level content, but will likely be the biggest consumer of it.

 

With Carbine caving in on reducing the difficulty to get into raids, the entire outcry that we saw making that happen isn't going to just go away, it will instead shuffle up the ladder one rung and be applied to the next difficult step in the process of "finishing" the game which is the raiding content. Since Carbine is now showing that they fold like paper over they're most fundamental building blocks, the outcry will be even louder and likely even more effective.

... fun fact  persistence is also a really important  quality for raiders, trust me it is the only thing that will keep your raid together when  it hit a roadblock boss that will hold you up for weeks to months.


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#30 Typrop

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:35 AM

I was looking forward to working on silvers. Probably won't get a chance now that not too many people will be interested.

 

Not crazy about the change, but if it helps the long term health of the game, it's the right choice.

Can do what I did and get some folks who are achievement hunters. We're planning to push for gold soon as we want a few of the titles they offer.


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#31 Lysdexia

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:39 AM

It is not about whether or not they are doing the right thing for the health of there game. It may give the game better appeal overall. It is the fact that they sold the hardcore crowd a year before launch on an entirely different story. One that would not cave to popular demand. Over and over though they keep showing that rewarding bad behavior is getting people what they want. Amps, Character model reductions, class skill and abilities (medics and warriors both recently), and now attunement. Everytime a group of people get together and complain that this game is going to die if they do not make the changes they want immediately they have given in and rewarded the behavior. It is not me just getting upset that they caved on attunement, it is that they have caved again, and the game isn't even 3 months old. Everyone thinks that a game needs to be this, that or the other thing, but when you keep listening to people over and over again you end up with the same game every time. That same game gets left in droves every time it comes out.

 

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

 

Have you read that yet?  Do you understand that yet?

 

The DPS check is still there.  The healing check is still there.  The awareness and coordination checks are still there.  All they did is change it so that a single mistake in your SSM run doesn't cause an entire evening's progress to be lost.
 
And you really didn't think medic DPS or warrior threat both needed some love?

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#32 SlyJeff

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:45 AM

They did, however, change the difficulty of attunment.


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#33 Blezzle

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:45 AM

 

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

 

Have you read that yet?  Do you understand that yet?

 

The DPS check is still there.  The healing check is still there.  The awareness and coordination checks are still there.  All they did is change it so that a single mistake in your SSM run doesn't cause an entire evening's progress to be lost.
 
And you really didn't think medic DPS or warrior threat both needed some love?

 

 

Again it is not the point that they didn't need love. I play a warrior tank. We need tons of fixes. The expectation keeps getting set though that if you complain enough then you will get fixed immediately.

 

They did not change the difficulty of dungeons. Dungeons were not hard to begin with. All they did was move the bar a little lower for raids. Bronze does not take skill. It takes brute force. We downed SSM bronze our first attempt ever in there. It took 5 hours but we got it down. We have run so many people through SSM silver now that we get it down in 62-65 minutes every time. Having to work with a timer made us better as a team. Attunements are about preparing people for raid content. Bronze does not force you to play your character on the edge. It forces you to play your character just well enough to beat the bosses.


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#34 CRB_Timetravel

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:48 AM

A quick summary of the changes:

  1. Silver vet dungeon requirement is being changed to Bronze.
  2. World boss step is getting some love, but the exact changes are still in flux so we have not announced exactly what is changing.
  3. Partial Primal Pattern requirements are being lowered from 300 to 100 per person.

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#35 Halfthor

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:55 AM

you'll have to  wait  for  the  live stream to end,  so  someone can link the  vod

 

http://www.twitch.tv...tar/b/557396007



#36 Bnol

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:56 AM

I didn't want them to change the silver requirement, but I am glad they are just dropping it to bronze so we can move on from this topic and the devs don't have to waste more time.  It will be interesting to see how Carbine deals with the inevitable 1/6 GA wall and the subsequent complaints.  Looking forward to any changes to World Bosses, as that is the truly annoying step.


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#37 FlyingK

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:56 AM

 

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

They have not changed the difficulty of the dungeon bosses.

 

Have you read that yet?  Do you understand that yet?

 

The DPS check is still there.  The healing check is still there.  The awareness and coordination checks are still there.  All they did is change it so that a single mistake in your SSM run doesn't cause an entire evening's progress to be lost.
 
And you really didn't think medic DPS or warrior threat both needed some love?

 

 

Bronzing dungeons is EASY, I have seen more than enough groups do it by simply grave zerking the content until they get lucky. There is no skill or ability needed since there is no real penalty for failures and there is no line in the sand to tell incapable players to go improve and come back later.

 

Carbine has shown to fold like paper, they will now be inundated with even greater demands to reduce the difficulty of the newly accessible endgame content. With their now long running history of caving in, I fully expect them to comply.



#38 Razhork

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:58 AM

I'm fine with this change, but if I see people complaining about the raid content they shall face the full fury of my angry keyboard typing on gaming forums. I'll say this here and now, the raid is finely tuned. 

Nothing needs to be changed with the bosses or trash as it stands right now. 


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#39 Kiaros

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:59 AM

Oh please, get off your high horse, they changed the attunement quest for people to go whipe in GA and replace raid memebrs easier, if they change the raid or dungeon difficulty then we can all complain.

 

 

Ill be first in line to be against raid difficulty nerfs.  and i promote the dungeon changes.


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#40 Party On Garth

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 12:02 PM

 

A quick summary of the changes:

  1. Silver vet dungeon requirement is being changed to Bronze.
  2. World boss step is getting some love, but the exact changes are still in flux so we have not announced exactly what is changing.
  3. Partial Primal Pattern requirements are being lowered from 300 to 100 per person.

 

 

Aside from #3, I'm not excited about this change. Requiring players to get silver required a player to have a certain level of in game proficiency before they could burden raid leaders with their lack thereof. That said, I understand the choice. And it will help provide more bodies we can throw into raids. The value of said bodies will be questionable though.

 

What this will do is further de-emphasize the need for medals. I think in order to keep value on dungeon medals, there ought to be more item imbuements tied to medals.   


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