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Itemization and stats in Wildstar - Whats being done about it

itemization arena weapon pve pvp assault power

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#1 hpxca

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:20 PM

Has Carbine commented specifically on what they are doing to address serious itemization issues in the game?

 

  • The heavy weight of assault power for PvE classes unbalances everything. AP is king and undermines all other stats. This is the core of pretty much every other itemization issue in this game.
  • The quantity and type of rune slots matters more then the rest of the stats on an item for most pieces of gear. If it doesn't have fire/fusion/logic the item is trash, other rune slots do not matter.
  • PvP to PvE (or vice versa) - one of my most hated things in an MMO. If Wildstar had launched with just PvP servers I would have passed over it right there and not given it another thought. I would not have pre-ordered, I would not have subbed. Another PvP-based MMO - that's fine, just not a game for me. But here we go again - you're making the same mistakes so many other MMO's have made before you. With the weight of AP as a DPS stat in the game item budget points invested in PvP-only stats on arena weapons just don't matter. Several pieces of the best PvE gear (even better than some items found in 20-man raids let alone pre-raid) is obtained via PvP only. PvP arena bags, obtainable even for losing matches drop talent point and AMP point upgrades. Where are these in dungeons? In raids? In world drops? As quest rewards? I haven't ever seen any - only obtainable in PvE via an endless grind of dailies for elder gems. Many PvPers have been able to obtain all obtainable AMP point and abilitiy point increases already. As a PvE player who has played since release, completed nearly all the silver dungeons (save one) and got gold on every adventure many many times I have only been able (thus far) get enough elder gems for two ability points...just two.

 

I have seen some vague posts that the balance of AP is being looked at but nothing specifically addressing PvP to PvE.

 

Thanks


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#2 Krighton

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:35 PM

This will answer all your questions..as well as create new ones.

 

Enjoy.

 

http://www.twitch.tv...dstar/c/4676170


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#3 RustyP

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:49 PM

Yah watch Jeff Tallon as he sits there thinking that all is right with the world, when him and his team have clearly messed up a LOT of stuff.

 

Use more excel sheets mate. Remember: RAND() is your friend. Everyone likes more RAND(). RAND() some stats, RAND() some runes. Awesome!

Also, everyone wants Focus Recovery on Heavy Armor. We want more of that please! While you're at it, make sure you make raid drops with Deflect and Deflect Crit on the Brut/Finesse/Moxie gear. That's always useful!


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#4 RlyAfka

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

Yah watch Jeff Tallon as he sits there thinking that all is right with the world, when him and his team have clearly messed up a LOT of stuff.

 

 

4b21c0b9dbb18bdfa8a7140153291cd8.png


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#5 RustyP

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:03 PM

I have to admit, I gave him a massive +10 for that reply.

 

But he's still on about -90 in my books...

 

How do you set world drops for AMP/Ability points at 100 times lower than you wanted to? That's not even... just wow. A factor of 100 out? WTF. If I did that in my job, people would die (literally). I know people wouldn't die in this, but still... that's a colossal mess up. One he acknowledges with a "eh. It happens". Also, it's just one of a huge number of them that seems to come out of the itemization crew. (all except stat weights really, which is class devs problem).



#6 J-Tal

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:39 PM

4b21c0b9dbb18bdfa8a7140153291cd8.png

662814-simpsons_homer_eating_popcorn_lar

 

Alright, let's do this:

 

Assault Power/Support Power:

We're looking at adjusting the way AP/SP scales per budget point, scales from Primary Stat, and is gained from Runes and Imbuements. The most generalized summary of this will be that AP/SP from Primary Stat will go up for some classes and pure AP/SP per budget point and from runes will likely go down, such that Primary Stat will be more valuable in some circumstances and pure AP/SP will be more valuable in other circumstances. We will have more information on this when it is closer to being released (and tested on PTR).

 

Runes and Runecrafting:

I'm not gonna lie. This system needs a lot of rework. We'll be looking into in the next couple of weeks focusing mostly on the following major issues.
1) Random Rune Counts suck. This directly affects the items actual power level. And generally is just a very bad thing balance-wise. We're looking at reeling this in heavily.

2) Random Rune Colors also suck, but less so. We'll probably keep a lot of the random variance in rune colors but are looking at ways to mitigate this as much as possible. We're considering potentially adding ways to reroll colors and/or adding new runes to fill in gaps where certain colors are either extremely valuable or woefully unwanted to some players.

3) Runes are fairly expensive and replaced too quickly in the leveling experience to be worthwhile. One of the ideas we're tossing around is potentially adding a "weakened" version of the basic runes to a vendor. These would add less bonus and be much cheaper, basically be throw-away runes, and would be more of an incentive to participate in the rune system and actually rune your items as you level up. Definitely not a final plan, just letting you know we're actively thinking about it.

4) Rune Sets (and Item Specials, and also Gadgets) can vary from basically the best thing since individually wrapped cheese slices to something closer to a wet paper towel. We're looking at balancing a lot of these out in the next few patches and adding new ones where we feel we are lacking options for certain playstyles.

 

AMP/Ability Points and Trigger Fingers

So, this one I will actually apologize for, again. Yeah, it was a bug and bugs happen. But, it was a pretty impactful bug to a lot of people. I'm sorry it took us as long as it did to find and fix those two.

 

Hmm, what else? There's a lot of other things. We're taking a few weeks now, after we've gotten ahead on new content implementation for future patches, to work exclusively on exactly these types of issues - fixing bugs, auditing our systems, and making QoL improvements. It's ... a very long list.

 

Please continue to give us feedback, with slightly less flames. Unless it's directed at me. Because I can take it. Because I'm not a hero. Because I'm the Itemization Lead Wildstar deserves.

 

I'm Batman.


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#7 zombiechan

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:44 PM


 

Please continue to give us feedback, with slightly less flames. Unless it's directed at me. Because I can take it. Because I'm not a hero. Because I'm the Itemization Lead Wildstar deserves.

 

I'm Batman.

 

 

I do wish more devs posted in the forum more often, they're always entertaining.


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#8 Chelley

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:54 PM

662814-simpsons_homer_eating_popcorn_lar

 

Alright, let's do this:

 

Assault Power/Support Power:

We're looking at adjusting the way AP/SP scales per budget point, scales from Primary Stat, and is gained from Runes and Imbuements. The most generalized summary of this will be that AP/SP from Primary Stat will go up for some classes and pure AP/SP per budget point and from runes will likely go down, such that Primary Stat will be more valuable in some circumstances and pure AP/SP will be more valuable in other circumstances. We will have more information on this when it is closer to being released (and tested on PTR).

 

Runes and Runecrafting:

I'm not gonna lie. This system needs a lot of rework. We'll be looking into in the next couple of weeks focusing mostly on the following major issues.
1) Random Rune Counts suck. This directly affects the items actual power level. And generally is just a very bad thing balance-wise. We're looking at reeling this in heavily.

2) Random Rune Colors also suck, but less so. We'll probably keep a lot of the random variance in rune colors but are looking at ways to mitigate this as much as possible. We're considering potentially adding ways to reroll colors and/or adding new runes to fill in gaps where certain colors are either extremely valuable or woefully unwanted to some players.

3) Runes are fairly expensive and replaced too quickly in the leveling experience to be worthwhile. One of the ideas we're tossing around is potentially adding a "weakened" version of the basic runes to a vendor. These would add less bonus and be much cheaper, basically be throw-away runes, and would be more of an incentive to participate in the rune system and actually rune your items as you level up. Definitely not a final plan, just letting you know we're actively thinking about it.

4) Rune Sets (and Item Specials, and also Gadgets) can vary from basically the best thing since individually wrapped cheese slices to something closer to a wet paper towel. We're looking at balancing a lot of these out in the next few patches and adding new ones where we feel we are lacking options for certain playstyles.

 

AMP/Ability Points and Trigger Fingers

So, this one I will actually apologize for, again. Yeah, it was a bug and bugs happen. But, it was a pretty impactful bug to a lot of people. I'm sorry it took us as long as it did to find and fix those two.

 

Hmm, what else? There's a lot of other things. We're taking a few weeks now, after we've gotten ahead on new content implementation for future patches, to work exclusively on exactly these types of issues - fixing bugs, auditing our systems, and making QoL improvements. It's ... a very long list.

 

Please continue to give us feedback, with slightly less flames. Unless it's directed at me. Because I can take it. Because I'm not a hero. Because I'm the Itemization Lead Wildstar deserves.

 

I'm Batman.

 

SO umm, what the hell was the trigger finger fix?

 

Cause you know, farming skullcano till my eyes bleed, doing dailies for satchels, farming challenges for satchels and you know here I am three weeks after hitting 50 and I have no TF.

 

While we're at it, Nobody in my guild/on my server seems to have found any of those lovely amp points or ability points outside of PvP and elder gems.

 

So is this something thats "Coming soon" like technologists being useful?



#9 Elite Seraph

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 02:55 PM


3) Runes are fairly expensive and replaced too quickly in the leveling experience to be worthwhile. One of the ideas we're tossing around is potentially adding a "weakened" version of the basic runes to a vendor. These would add less bonus and be much cheaper, basically be throw-away runes, and would be more of an incentive to participate in the rune system and actually rune your items as you level up. Definitely not a final plan, just letting you know we're actively thinking about it.

 


The issue is NOT the cost while leveling up. It's that gear is replaced too quickly with higher level quest drops to make it worthwhile to bother putting runes in the first place!  People aren't even bothering to repair their gear because it's cheaper to ignore it due to knowing that it will be replaced quickly. Do you really think under those circumstances that they're going to bother spending money on runes?
 


b]AMP/Ability Points and Trigger Fingers[/b]
So, this one I will actually apologize for, again. Yeah, it was a bug and bugs happen. But, it was a pretty impactful bug to a lot of people. I'm sorry it took us as long as it did to find and fix those two.

 




Just put TF and several other important runes in a rep vendor somewhere and be done with it. People should not EVER be required to hope for random drops to obtain core mechanics/abilities for their class!


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#10 Arkillo

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:00 PM

This will answer all your questions..as well as create new ones.

 

Enjoy.

 

http://www.twitch.tv...dstar/c/4676170

 

I like how the main item dude is wearing a RIFT shirt, essentially promoting their competition.


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#11 Chelley

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:00 PM

The issue is NOT the cost while leveling up. It's that gear is replaced too quickly with higher level quest drops to make it worthwhile to bother putting runes in the first place!  People aren't even bothering to repair their gear because it's cheaper to ignore it due to knowing that it will be replaced quickly. Do you really think under those circumstances that they're going to bother spending money on runes?
 



Just put TF and several other important runes in a rep vendor somewhere and be done with it. People should not EVER be required to hope for random drops to obtain core mechanics/abilities for their class!

 

Hey guys, you might wanna hire this one.


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#12 Chelley

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:02 PM

I like how the main item dude is wearing a RIFT shirt, essentially promoting their competition.

 

So your saying he doesn't even know which game he's working on or what?



#13 Tenner

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:03 PM

Ohhh I like the disposable vendor runeset idea.

Gotta disagree with Seraph there. I'm one of the no doubt many people who saw rune prices during leveling, saw the potential benefits, and decided to wait until level cap to bother. Cheap weak versions sounds like an excellent idea. :)

 

Another option might be to rebalance the materials required for crafting? You know: Make level cap rune sets use only high level rune materials but much more of them (e.g. Eldan fragments are almost worthless right now because the market is flooded, while normal fragments still sell for several gold despite the well known vendor-salvage-"trick".

Obviously this would disrupt the rune economy and allow some people to amass vast amounts of platinum, but that's usually what happens with item rebalancing from my experience.



#14 Malediktus

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:07 PM

Can we expect these changes for Drop 3 or do we have to wait longer than that?


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#15 Chelley

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

Can we expect these changes for Drop 3 or do we have to wait longer than that?

You mean the boom boom pvp lookit at this new battleground drop?



#16 DeaHamlet

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

You mean the boom boom pvp lookit at this new battleground drop?

 

I thought that was drop 2.


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#17 Tezius

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:10 PM

662814-simpsons_homer_eating_popcorn_lar

 

Alright, let's do this:

 

Assault Power/Support Power:

We're looking at adjusting the way AP/SP scales per budget point, scales from Primary Stat, and is gained from Runes and Imbuements. The most generalized summary of this will be that AP/SP from Primary Stat will go up for some classes and pure AP/SP per budget point and from runes will likely go down, such that Primary Stat will be more valuable in some circumstances and pure AP/SP will be more valuable in other circumstances. We will have more information on this when it is closer to being released (and tested on PTR).

 

Runes and Runecrafting:

I'm not gonna lie. This system needs a lot of rework. We'll be looking into in the next couple of weeks focusing mostly on the following major issues.
1) Random Rune Counts suck. This directly affects the items actual power level. And generally is just a very bad thing balance-wise. We're looking at reeling this in heavily.

2) Random Rune Colors also suck, but less so. We'll probably keep a lot of the random variance in rune colors but are looking at ways to mitigate this as much as possible. We're considering potentially adding ways to reroll colors and/or adding new runes to fill in gaps where certain colors are either extremely valuable or woefully unwanted to some players.

3) Runes are fairly expensive and replaced too quickly in the leveling experience to be worthwhile. One of the ideas we're tossing around is potentially adding a "weakened" version of the basic runes to a vendor. These would add less bonus and be much cheaper, basically be throw-away runes, and would be more of an incentive to participate in the rune system and actually rune your items as you level up. Definitely not a final plan, just letting you know we're actively thinking about it.

4) Rune Sets (and Item Specials, and also Gadgets) can vary from basically the best thing since individually wrapped cheese slices to something closer to a wet paper towel. We're looking at balancing a lot of these out in the next few patches and adding new ones where we feel we are lacking options for certain playstyles.

 

AMP/Ability Points and Trigger Fingers

So, this one I will actually apologize for, again. Yeah, it was a bug and bugs happen. But, it was a pretty impactful bug to a lot of people. I'm sorry it took us as long as it did to find and fix those two.

 

Hmm, what else? There's a lot of other things. We're taking a few weeks now, after we've gotten ahead on new content implementation for future patches, to work exclusively on exactly these types of issues - fixing bugs, auditing our systems, and making QoL improvements. It's ... a very long list.

 

Please continue to give us feedback, with slightly less flames. Unless it's directed at me. Because I can take it. Because I'm not a hero. Because I'm the Itemization Lead Wildstar deserves.

 

I'm Batman.

 

This is fantastic news. Thank you. The tripple RNG for items is getting incredibly frustrating and i find myself farming constantly just to afford rune materials. Thank you for letting us know the feedback is going somewhere



#18 Cikala

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:15 PM

I like how the main item dude is wearing a RIFT shirt, essentially promoting their competition.

 

Well he did work for Trion previously, which is a plus in my opinion.  Rift was a great game until the expansion, at which point it just felt like it lacked something the base game had.



#19 Chelley

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:17 PM

Well he did work for Trion previously, which is a plus in my opinion.  Rift was a great game until the expansion, at which point it just felt like it lacked something the base game had.

Would that be subscribers?



#20 dinwitt

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 03:21 PM

Alright, let's do this:

 

Assault Power/Support Power:

We're looking at adjusting the way AP/SP scales per budget point, scales from Primary Stat, and is gained from Runes and Imbuements. The most generalized summary of this will be that AP/SP from Primary Stat will go up for some classes and pure AP/SP per budget point and from runes will likely go down, such that Primary Stat will be more valuable in some circumstances and pure AP/SP will be more valuable in other circumstances. We will have more information on this when it is closer to being released (and tested on PTR).

 

Runes and Runecrafting:

I'm not gonna lie. This system needs a lot of rework. We'll be looking into in the next couple of weeks focusing mostly on the following major issues.
1) Random Rune Counts suck. This directly affects the items actual power level. And generally is just a very bad thing balance-wise. We're looking at reeling this in heavily.


AMP/Ability Points and Trigger Fingers

So, this one I will actually apologize for, again. Yeah, it was a bug and bugs happen. But, it was a pretty impactful bug to a lot of people. I'm sorry it took us as long as it did to find and fix those two.

 

Hmm, what else? There's a lot of other things. We're taking a few weeks now, after we've gotten ahead on new content implementation for future patches, to work exclusively on exactly these types of issues - fixing bugs, auditing our systems, and making QoL improvements. It's ... a very long list.

 

Please continue to give us feedback, with slightly less flames. Unless it's directed at me. Because I can take it. Because I'm not a hero. Because I'm the Itemization Lead Wildstar deserves.

 

I'm Batman.

 

This all sounds wonderful.  It'll be nice to be able to compare AP values across classes meaningfully.  Hopefully you'll be taking another look at AMP/Ability points upgrade drop rates, because it is still unrealistically small.  Alternatively, adding soulbound versions of these to dungeon medal rewards/raid boss tables would be acceptable.  And finally, you need to look at rune slots on crafted items.  If they were rolling their intended amount, usually 2 or less, instead of up to 5, then their potential wouldn't be nearly as out of control as it is now.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: itemization, arena, weapon, pve, pvp, assault power